fretmeister Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 If I understand the common moans about these, it's that the signal is compressed to buggery to limit peaks etc and let the power section appear to be louder than it is? Now, I am a compression junkie. I love it. So does that mean I am less likely to be moaning about them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 (edited) [quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1342817557' post='1741589'] If I understand the common moans about these, it's that the signal is compressed to buggery to limit peaks etc and let the power section appear to be louder than it is? Now, I am a compression junkie. I love it. So does that mean I am less likely to be moaning about them? [/quote] Absolutely. I never used compression before and I love it! I have the 750 and still have zero regrets. 99% of people only started moaning about compression or power AFTER the Bass Gear Mag review. This is NOT a low powered amp. There is a 450 watt module in there that is limited and TCs APM does the rest. No one apart from the TC engineers knows what it is comprised of and it isn't just compression. If it was it wouldn't be as loud as most other 500 W Markbass amps. It's like having a very very reliable slick Ampeg amp with more tone options in a tiny package. Edited July 20, 2012 by Musicman20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 I think I need one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernmeister Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Now that sounds like a man who has GAS !!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 Any amp will sound loud if you roll all the bass off. That amp has no bottom end. It's an amp for electric cello players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted July 20, 2012 Share Posted July 20, 2012 [quote name='stevie' timestamp='1342823492' post='1741706'] Any amp will sound loud if you roll all the bass off. That amp has no bottom end. It's an amp for electric cello players. [/quote] Plennttttyyyy of low end, the only thing some might miss is Marcus Miller sparkly highs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 No low end? Last year's eabb witnessed my rh450 smashing a lightbulb with just one cab. Low end it does not lack! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I hated it. It sounded like floppy cardboard. IMO. I was one of the 1% who complained about it before the rating issue. I just [i]knew[/i] there was something weird about it. It's not an issue for lots of other people, though... it's a taste thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) Sorry guys, you might not think the low end is rolled off, but look at the measurements on the infamous magazine test. It's got a bump at 90Hz followed by a steep rolloff below that. Do that with any amp and it will go much louder because it does not stress the speakers nearly as much. And what has smashing a lightbulb got to do with the price of beans? Despite TC's protests, you cannot get past the fact that the amp produced 236W at *five percent distortion*. So it was basically completely out of puff at this point. If it were measured with less generous distortion levels (like 0.01% which is more normal) you would probably find that this is not even a 200W amp. I agree with WoT. What finally convinced me that mine sounded really grim was when our keyboard player tried it out. With it, my bass it sounded honky with no body, but with the keyboard you could hear it much more clearly. IMO of course:-). Definitely try before you buy. There are an awful lot of these turning up in the For Sale section right now. Edited July 21, 2012 by stevie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 You could say 'there are a lot of jazz basses for sale at the moment' or 'there are a lot of Dingwalls for sale on Talkbass', both fairly true, but not representative of a market. Before this thread turns into another spec vs spec, I suggest the OP just tried it out, in a normal environment and not in a test vacuum which can change everytime they do it. As with these expensive DIY cabs that are around vs normal commercial cabs, listen before judging on the specs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyBRebelMC Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 "Before this thread turns into another spec vs spec, I suggest the OP just tried it out, in a normal environment and not in a test vacuum which can change everytime they do" Absolutely, the low end thing is all about what cab you're using and where in the room you are as much as the specs of the amp. With the AE212 it's way to much low end generally, so it's important to try - they are great amps if you want to travel light as pretty much everything you need is built in and the EQ frequencies for each pot can be tailored to your preference. I think the RH series does need plenty of twiddling before you really get the sound you want (unless you're very lucky or probably using TC cabs) but all the parameters are adjustable and hence it's a very versatile amp... just not the simplest to get on with at first I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='stevie' timestamp='1342861104' post='1741902'] ....Despite TC's protests, you cannot get past the fact that the amp produced 236W at *five percent distortion*.... [/quote] Yes you can. Let's not be confused about these amps. You can like the tone or you can hate it, but the Staccato/RH450 and RH750 are as loud as any 500 watt and 750 watt amps you can buy. This 236 watt thing is nonsense. If you like the tone then TC amps are on a par with any amp on the market, and better than many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) Just look at the facts, m'lord. The amp produces 5 percent distortion at 236W on the test bench. The bass end is rolled off below 100Hz. Ergo, it's not a 500W amp and it will sound much "louder" than if it had a flat frequency response. The problem I had with the bottom end of my Classic 450 was that I couldn't put the low end back without boosting the upper bass. It may not be a problem with the more expensive version. Edited July 21, 2012 by stevie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='MartyBRebelMC' timestamp='1342864918' post='1741954'] Absolutely, the low end thing is all about what cab you're using and where in the room you are as much as the specs of the amp. [/quote] This is true, and with some cabs, the TC Electronics amp will sound balanced. However, most bass cabs do roll off below 100Hz - so most people are likely to get a sound that is bottom-light. No problem if that's what you want. My original point was that any amp can be made to sound subjectively loud by filtering the very low end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1342865399' post='1741970'] Let's not be confused about these amps. You can like the tone or you can hate it, but the Staccato/RH450 and RH750 are as loud as any 500 watt and 750 watt amps you can buy. [/quote] It depends what you mean by 'loud'. IME, the useful stuff got left behind as you turned the volume up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyBRebelMC Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I don't think this is very helpfull to the OP Real world experience is all that matters... it's not a rubbish amp obviously but a clever bit of design that may exhibit characteristics not to everyone's taste or style of playing..... like most amps in fact. In answer to the original post, I've not found the sound to be particularly compressed outside of using the inbuilt compressor (I'm using the RH750 - but it's essentially the same amp with a bigger power stage) so whether that's good or bad for you I'm not sure, however I play covers and don't do much playing with particularly dynamic needs. For me it's greatest asset is its multi channel versatility and inbuilt bits and pieces plus it's small and light. Certainly worth trying one out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1342866555' post='1742003'] ....It depends what you mean by 'loud'. IME, the useful stuff got left behind as you turned the volume up..... [/quote] Then loud still means loud. Like I say if the tone is for you (and I accept it wasn't for you) then its a good amp. Some people think they get a good sound by stuffing a ton of foam unser the strings, I don't but if they think its good then it is. My point is to correct the "fud", these amps are as loud as they claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 (edited) I found this and the Classic 450 to be lacking in low end too... This was through an RS210 cabinet though so it might not have been a fair test. Bloody loud though! EDIT: Didn't notice any compression when the compression and drive knobs were down either Edited July 21, 2012 by chrismuzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1342866982' post='1742016'] Then loud still means loud. [/quote] Absolutely. But then... my six-year-old daughter is deafening, but she'd be a hopeless bass amplifier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='MartyBRebelMC' timestamp='1342866955' post='1742015'] I don't think this is very helpfull to the OP [/quote] On the contrary. It is always helpful to get opinions from people who like the product and people who dislike the product. What is very unhelpful is when everyone says how wonderful a product is without pointing out its shortcomings, real or imagined. The OP can then take from this discussion what's important to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='stevie' timestamp='1342867605' post='1742031'] On the contrary. It is always helpful to get opinions from people who like the product and people who dislike the product. What is very unhelpful is when everyone says how wonderful a product is without pointing out its shortcomings, real or imagined. The OP can then take from this discussion what's important to him. [/quote] I agree with this. I like to hear a variety of reviews, good and bad, when thinking about getting something new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyBRebelMC Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 I think any opinion to have usefulness in these situations needs perhaps plenty of info regarding the circumstance of the situation from which that opinion is formed I.e. what equipment was being used in conjunction with the amp, in comparison to what other equipment/combinations, what style of music etc etc. Otherwise you kind of just get - I thought it was poo...I thought it was great But hey whatever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Having read several threads on these amps I'd have to say I wouldn't buy one. Not particularly because of the fuss over what the true 'watt' rating it has but the overall impression to me is it's loud if you want to honk. I do not wish to honk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 I need to find a shop that has these in stock along with a MB LM3 and a Reidmar so I can do a proper comparison. Fat chance of finding all in stock at the same place though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted July 21, 2012 Share Posted July 21, 2012 Its not the 'in' amplifier at the moment. TC stole a huge share of the micro market, everyone enjoyed them (IF they liked the tone, which is aimed at a tube amp being 'pushed' a little hence the slight compression) then the Bass Gear Mag came out, everyone suddenly said 'oh yes, I heard it wasn't loud and had no lows'.Then, as usual, out come the 'engineers' who start spouting off specs just like the threads on modern DIY cabs. Seriously, just listen to it. Like it? Great, think about getting one. Don't like it, great, don't get one. If you read the first 4 or so huge megatheads on Talkbass, you will see how good the reception was for these products. Funny thing is, the same people who now slate it loved the amp for a year, but got bored and moved onto the next big thing. Now it seems the next big sellers are tube pre amps, a slight move towards full tube amps, etc. Me? I'm sticking with it. The quality is outstanding, the DI is superb and the best I've used, the features are actually very useful, and tone is right there for me, (a low mid kicker). If you want huge sub bass, no, it isn't for you, but then again there are many amps that avoid huge low end as you need the speakers to handle it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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