What's the sound of a Musicman?

[drTStingray]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1345213146' post='1775079']
I had wondered about this too. I had always presumed the Bernard had used roundwounds, as most players probably did by 1977, but that is just an assumption. If someone knows better then I wil gladly defer to them . I have no idea if flats or rounds came factory -fitted on the early production models of the Stingray, and I too have heard that quote about him using the same strings that came with the bass. What I do know is that in the later stages of his career he was definitely using roundwounds and favoured a brighter sound. If you listen to Bernard on this track from Let's Dance , for example, which must have been recorded in 1982 it sounds very much to me like the unmistakable tone of a Stingray with roundwounds:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cs8EkDyqCo[/media]
[/quote]

I haven't heard that before and I'm sure you're right. He also seems to use rounds on the 96 live performance at the Budekah.

Not sure what strings the early basses had but my 79/80 one, which I bought new, had rounds when I got it. I think the idea at the time was too use the mutes if you wanted a flatwound sound.

That whole performance of Ashes to Ashes is fabulous, and a great bass sound and performance also.

[mckendrick]

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1342862340' post='1741919']
Big Stingray fan here, have two,
No1, a pre-EB, rarely used as I'm scared of dings etc and
No2, a superb, bog standard 3eq from 2001 which is used all the time and not sacred so not so scared of dings etc.

I have recently struggled through two Jazzes. Both instruments have been fine, but just haven't got on with them. Seemed like I had to fiddle and tweak all the time to get a sound with definition that would cut through the mix (very noisy keyboard player), sound like a Jazz and be satisfying. Never really made it. Could get the Jaco sort of sound, ie back playing on and through the back pup but this never seemed to be strong enough in a normal band setting where some low end is required to complete the sound.

Going back to the Ray No1 was sublime, the sound was straight away there, lots of comments from others and it made me decide to trade in the Jazz for a Ray I could use everyday. Long story, but this is what happened, enter Ray No2. Straight away, great sound, just plug and play. Very powerful, definition all there, whack up the treble is needed, whack it back when not.

Whereas a Jazz can sound like a Jazz, unmistakable in the right hands, we can all give examples of Precisions (whether low thump from Dunn and Jamerson or clank from Entwhistle and Burnell) and we can recognise a Rick. Can anyone recognise a MM? No question they sound great, for me its been the major attraction. But while I can think of examples of superb sound from a MM ('Nard Edwards, Tony Levin etc) I can't say I'd recognise a 'classic Stingray sound', I just happen to know a Stingray was being used.

Anyone?
[/quote]
" 'Nard"...? Sheesh!

[iconic]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1345206790' post='1774968']
I seem to remember seeing this clip in some other context on Basschat, but I watched it again recently and was struck by what a great example of what is to me the archetypal Stingray sound . The full-bore attack of this bass allied to the superb skills of the guy who's playing it.makes every note punch through the mix on this performance.:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egwel8tQPg8[/media]
[/quote]

Great clip, for me you couldn't mistake that bass for anything else blindfolded.....one of my favorite tunes to noodle on.... this version sounds to be in lower key than the recording (Ab?) I need to look at his playing to be sure, could be my ears, they are crap after all?

What's the sound of Stingray...for me simply Max' Funk.... and for me the only bass that can deliver high treb's with bass that I can still feel in my stomach. I reckon there are only 3 main types of bass, everything else is a variation of their flavors. Every one should own at some time in their life, a P bass, a Jazz bass...and a StingRay....4 string of course!

I think a single humbucker Stingray is always going to sound more 'treblely', simply down to the location of the rear positioned pup, I often play mine with max bass, mid and treb cut to min, she still sounds slightly harsher than my P bass with tone cut, but in a good way and still with a creamy bass bottom.

NB:- I thought it was just me who loved the raw sound of fretting, clangs and the mechanical noise of strings on frets This clip is (previously posted under Mark Adams), for me and my 70's/80's funk tastes, is a fantastic example of a Stingray sound as 'raw' as it gets, without too much bass EQ, it still gives me goosebumps.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__w6tWywgLg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__w6tWywgLg[/url]

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='iconic' timestamp='1345273420' post='1775709']
[b]a P bass, a Jazz bass...and a StingRay....4 string of course![/b]
[/quote]

The Holy Trinity as it were Add a B string for even more goodness

[Musicman20]

Its crazy listening to the normal Stingray tone, because my current goto Ray is strung with EB Flats, and not only is it harder to play (but good for buliding my finger strength) but the tone is changed a lot. Its still a Ray, but you lose the clank, the fret buzz and rattle, the aggressive bite, etc.

I need to get my Ray HH out, which hasn't been unpacked from its shipping box since we moved out! A comparison vid would be great to show the flats/rounds crowd just how much difference it makes on a Ray.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='iconic' timestamp='1345273420' post='1775709']
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__w6tWywgLg[/media]
[/quote]

For me this sums up the 2 band and pre EB in general, they just tend to have more top and more bottom at the same time! It also high lights why I am warming to solid state pre amps for Rays too, it has plenty of dirt when you drive the on board preamp even when played through what sounds like a fairly clean amp of some kind, they do not rely on the amp to put back in what the bass guitar itself is lacking

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1345279363' post='1775752']
Its crazy listening to the normal Stingray tone, because my current goto Ray is strung with EB Flats, and not only is it harder to play (but good for buliding my finger strength) but the tone is changed a lot. Its still a Ray, but you lose the clank, the fret buzz and rattle, the aggressive bite, etc.


[/quote]

My pre EB had flats on when I bought it (it was Nicks from Nicks guitars gigging bass at the time and he is a flats man), the thump was second to none!
Do you have any Rays with mutes fitted Gareth? They do get you very close

[Musicman20]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1345279770' post='1775756']
My pre EB had flats on when I bought it (it was Nicks from Nicks guitars gigging bass at the time and he is a flats man), the thump was second to none!
Do you have any Rays with mutes fitted Gareth? They do get you very close
[/quote]

Unfortunately not.

Perhaps one day!

[Musicman20]

Y'know what. I was looking into getting a P bass with maple board to match my rosewood version, but the more I hear Rays, I just think 'nah, get another Musicman'. Despite the fact I had those problems with the HH Ray (which were nothing to do with the factory, and the one I actually ordered and received eventually is stunning) I still think you can't beat Musicman for tone/aesthetics/quality/hardware at the price point. The new price points are a bit crazy, but I suppose it was going to happen

The P bass/J bass I have sound great. Play well, look great, lightweight, etc. Plug in a Ray, and the core tone just stamps all over everything. I love it!

[ezbass]

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1343392479' post='1750046']


'Nard used flats, it would be difficult to get that sound with roundwounds. Lots if definition there though, notwithstanding his expertise in playing.
[/quote]This seems to be the case. John Taylor inherited BE's 'Ray and it was fitted with ancient flats according to an interview with JT.

[iconic]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1345226131' post='1775312']
He is called Mark Plati. He is actually one of Bowies guitarists but for some reason - maybe someone else knows why- he plays bass on that song whilst usual bassist Gail Ann Dorsey ( who is also a brilliant player ,who favours a Stingray as well) plays guitar.
[/quote]

I don't blame her , this version seems to be in F...'tis easier for me in Ab (Mixolydian?)

Not knowing too much (well bugger all in fact ) about key changes, that seems a fair old change step down (well 3 half steps in be pedantic)..I'm guessing this would this have something to Bowie's voice changing over 20 odd years?

[Highfox]

I'm a big flats man, when I got my first Ray I stuck flats on it right away and dug the sound it gave me, but I now think my P does flats better and the Ray really sizzles with rounds on it... Think I'll leave the EB Cobalt rounds on it till they fade and I'm left on middle ground

BTW, I thought the live version of Ashes was ferking awesome and better than the studio versions.

[Dingus]

[quote name='iconic' timestamp='1345273420' post='1775709']
Great clip, for me you couldn't mistake that bass for anything else blindfolded.....one of my favorite tunes to noodle on.... this version sounds to be in lower key than the recording (Ab?) I need to look at his playing to be sure, could be my ears, they are crap after all?

What's the sound of Stingray...for me simply Max' Funk.... and for me the only bass that can deliver high treb's with bass that I can still feel in my stomach. I reckon there are only 3 main types of bass, everything else is a variation of their flavors. Every one should own at some time in their life, a P bass, a Jazz bass...and a StingRay....4 string of course!

I think a single humbucker Stingray is always going to sound more 'treblely', simply down to the location of the rear positioned pup, I often play mine with max bass, mid and treb cut to min, she still sounds slightly harsher than my P bass with tone cut, but in a good way and still with a creamy bass bottom.

NB:- I thought it was just me who loved the raw sound of fretting, clangs and the mechanical noise of strings on frets This clip is (previously posted under Mark Adams), for me and my 70's/80's funk tastes, is a fantastic example of a Stingray sound as 'raw' as it gets, without too much bass EQ, it still gives me goosebumps.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__w6tWywgLg[/media]
[/quote]

Loving this clip and and what seems to be an impromptu performance by a very capable player. Your right about the rawness of that Stingray ; there's something about the sound of the bass in this clip that captures the difference in sound between pre-EB basses and the current Stingrays. The treble seems to be on a slightly higher frequency giving it that razor- sharp slice that is so agressive and so appealing., but at the same time the whole sound is less zingy that an EBMM Ray. You can hear the same characteristic in Louis Johnson's Starlicks video
: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CslkVhOoE2U
Regarding the other end of the tonal spectrum, one of the great things about the whole range of Musicman basses is that they all have massive bottom end. Even the single pickup Stingray is never lacking in thump whenever you want it.

[Musicman20]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLyV5JLvxM0

[Schnozzalee]

I don't mind the sound on a recording, but in my hands I don't like it at all, it's just too in your face. Precisions do the job for me, but on recordings they can be lost; I'll look to passive soapbar basses if I need anything a bit trebley. I like to keep everything smooth and funky drive on bass - Warwicks trump Musicman for that typical style IMO.

EDIT: I do get on with a Musicman if there are flats on it and their ancient

Edited August 18, 2012 by Schnozzalee

[Dingus]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1345302316' post='1776090']
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLyV5JLvxM0[/media]
[/quote]

Great demonstation of one of the best sounding and best designed basses of all time, in my opinion. I know Bongos tend to polarise opinion , but have loved them from the first moment I saw them when they came out, which must be nearly ten years ago now. I am genuinely mystified when some people say they look ugly- anyone who has seen one in the flesh must surely be won over by their mixture of angles and curves and the sculptured 3-d chamfering of the body . For my money, this is still the best bass EB make and one of the best basses on the market full stop , and I mean even compared to sky-is-the-limit boutique basses. They tend to be fairly light in weight , feel great and sound as punchy as a kangaroo in boxing gloves.. That four band preamp is brilliant too.
That Buttercream and tort. special edition . is the nicest colour scheme I have ever seen for a Bongo .

Edited August 18, 2012 by Dingus

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1345304199' post='1776113']
Great demonstation of one of the best sounding and best designed basses of all time, in my opinion. I know Bongos tend to polarise opinion , but have loved them from the first moment I saw them when they came out, which must be nearly ten years ago now. I am genuinely mystified when some people say they look ugly- anyone who has seen one in the flesh must surely be won over by their mixture of angles and curves and the 3-d chamfering of the body . For my money, this is still the best bass EB make and one of the best basses on the market full stop , and I mean even compared to sky-is-the-limit boutique basses. They tend to be fairly light in weight , feel great and sound as punchy as a kangaroo in boxing gloves.. That four band preamp is brilliant too.
That Buttercream and tort. special edition . is the nicest colour scheme I have ever seen for a Bongo .
[/quote]
I totally agree. Nothing, not even a Ray, sounds like the Bongo. Its clearly a Musicman tone but it just sounds so powerful...hard to explain.

They do polarise opinion. I didn't gel with the bodyshape aesthetically when I first saw the inital pictures, but now, I love em. It's a bit like beer/ale, when I was 15, I wasn't keen on even a sip. Now i'm 31, its great haha!

I have a Tangerine Pearl 5HH on order and I cannot wait!

[Schnozzalee]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1345304477' post='1776121']
I have a Tangerine Pearl 5HH on order and I cannot wait!
[/quote]

Tried a guitar in Manchester, that finish, it's hands down gorgeous.

Edited August 18, 2012 by Schnozzalee

[Dingus]

The Bongo really is a Musicman for the 21st Century. They have got a unique sound, and above all , like all Musicman basses, they are a bass for the real world; you can find a sound to cut through in any situation . Whether you are playing at a local pub or recording at Air Studios, you have got the best chance of actually making youself heard ( and /or felt) in the mix, rather than being left feeling like a bit of a mime artist, something I have found with some very expensive ( and very dissapointing) basses in the past. I'm not surprised you're excited about getting your 5HH. If you like Musicman basses -and lets face it, you do- then I would say a Bongo is mandatory. That tangerine pearl can I think be descibed as welll... very very orange. It's the one that Randy Jackson would probably choose . Onstage it will look amazing.
I really dont think it's a coincidence that the Bongo has such an unapologetically modern and relentlessly powerful sound and I am sure that sound was created with the dense, mechanised sound of a lot of modern music in mind. The Bongo won't sound like any other bass- you can't make it pretend to be a Precision or Jazz bass, or even a Stingray, really- but then again , why would you want to?
What will say about the Bongo is that if it was made by some small -scale exotic independent custom builder, you could stick another grand on the price and people wouldn't flinch at the final result for the money. Even at the new prices, I am struggling to think of a bass as good as the Bongo for the money.

Edited August 18, 2012 by Dingus

[classrock]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1345228380' post='1775366']
Is that the '76 sunburst one ? If so then you have just taken home what looks to be a rare and very beautiful example of a truly iconic bass. I hope you will posting pics and
be letting us know how you are getting on with it. Enjoy !
[/quote]Yes, that's the one !
You just know when things are right for you & this was.
I bought it warts & all.
I'll get some pics up soon.
Thankyou, Chris

[Dingus]

[quote name='classrock' timestamp='1345313746' post='1776230']
Yes, that's the one !
You just know when things are right for you & this was.
I bought it warts & all.
I'll get some pics up soon.
Thankyou, Chris
[/quote]

There's plenty of folks on here who will be looking forward to seeing that, Chris. It looks to be an exceptionally good and very clean example of a such an early model. That bass probably left the factory within the first few months of production- Stingray basses only commenced production in August 1976. Some real Musicman afficionados think that the Stingrays made within the first year or so of production are the best because by 1977 or so Leo and co.. had tweeked the preamp to change it's output slightly and in doing so altered the sound a little bit. I really don't know enough to vouch for the ins and outs of this, but this is information comes from someone who has had several vintage Stingrays and who knows far more than I. Maybe someone else on here can shed more light on it. The vintage of your bass suggests that it will have the earliest version of the Baxendale preamp, if I am not mistaken, thus making it even more desirable and collectable . Can't wait to hear all about your impressions of the bass once you have had a chance to familiarise yourself with it.

Edited August 18, 2012 by Dingus

[iconic]

If you mail Messers E ball, they can tell the build date (birthday!) of the bass, options if any, and where it was sent to, as in what dealer worldwide...all free of charge.

[classrock]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1345230784' post='1775410']
I only saw that a couple of days ago! I think you have had a bargain there

Do you agree they have some kind of extra magic? People think they are just the same as an EBMM but the only parts that are interchangeable are the tuners, so they only look the same really!
[/quote]All I can say is that nothing on this planet sounds like one of these.
I am no historian but I know Leo Fender 'over-egged' the top end of the Stingray because of his hearing.
Something changed when EB took over, they just mellowed the sound.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='classrock' timestamp='1345317818' post='1776296']
All I can say is that nothing on this planet sounds like one of these.
I am no historian but I know Leo Fender 'over-egged' the top end of the Stingray because of his hearing.
Something changed when EB took over, they just mellowed the sound.
[/quote]

The treble will still slice your head off, but the bass isn't set at the sub end of the bass freq. like they used to be.

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='iconic' timestamp='1345317450' post='1776289']
If you mail Messers E ball, they can tell the build date (birthday!) of the bass, options if any, and where it was sent to, as in what dealer worldwide...all free of charge.
[/quote]
Not for pre EB, it's a seperate company.

Someone could of been sneaky by rubbing the '77 neck date off making it essentially a full on '76, it's quite common to have no neck date and as its got (I presume) the TM logo etc it would be taken as '76. Not that I'm suggesting that!
No one is 100% certain about the preamps as they are covered in epoxy goo, John East's mm circuit is based on a '76 he has tested using a scope and measuring all the values carefully but (and me and mcnach fell out over this which actually made us best mates after but that another story!) it does not allow for any tolerances of the components at the time, even now basic electronic parts are listed as +/- 10% plus Leo might of bought boxes of bits from here there and everywhere, I don't think they were made under ISO9002 regulations if you know what I mean?

Edited August 18, 2012 by stingrayPete1977