Overrated Bassists.

[OutToPlayJazz]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='673582' date='Dec 3 2009, 08:10 PM']To be honest, I think it was when I saw Pino's name, I lost the will to live. Take those blinkers off...please.[/quote]

Heh! I know what you mean. There's just no talking to some people!

All the top players that have been ripped up and berated on this thread are basically [b][u]musican's musicians[/u][/b]. Whereas if you just want something to sound nice, that's fine as well. Just blend in with Joe Public if you like...

Many years ago, I somehow ended up playing g****r in a crap trio. The lead singer/bass player was possibly the worst bass player I've ever heard. Singing wasn't much better, either. He'd play root notes and nothing else. No fills. No life. No sparkle. Dull, dull, dull. But it worked.

The drummer could manage an eight-beat rock rhythm and a dodgy fill around the kit. Nothing more. My 6-stringing was hardly inspiring stuff, either (basic bar chords, 7ths & 9ths and the odd pentatonic/minor blues solo.)

But we earned a fortune. Because out in pub/club land it doesn't matter how technically brilliant you are (or not, as the case may be!). Joe Public just likes to hum/sing along or dance to a tune he knows. Simple as that.

My point?

Don't berate some of the world's greatest players just because they don't fit in with your tastes. Taste is one thing. Musicality, technical skill and inspiring others towards greatness is another thing altogether and should only be celebrated. If these amazing musicians didn't exist to push the envelope of our chosen instrument, we'd all be doomed to mediocrity with Joe Public, playing nice tunes we all know and nothing else. No sparkle, no life.

As two old hecklers used to shout from the back of a blues pub in Nottingham many moons ago... "Play something we know!"
If the band was crap they'd shout, "Play something YOU know!"

Those who still want to give Victor Wooten, Mark King, Stanley Clarke, Marcus Miller, Jaco Pastorius, etc a good kicking should instead remove their blinkers as mentioned above, use their flight cases as canoes and use their basses to paddle themselves off the end of the world (which incidentally lies just beyond Skegness!) like the flat-earthers they are.

Edited December 3, 2009 by OutToPlayJazz

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='Josh' post='673624' date='Dec 3 2009, 08:57 PM']I rate him as overrated purely based on from what I've heard of him, and with respect to him and his ability, I don't get any buzz out of his playing. I don't think anyone has thrown any slander about him around in this thread.

Why should people retract their opinions merely because you think differently?

If such was the case this place would be fairly Republican and increasingly dull.[/quote]


+ 10000

[harvey1-8]

I'm fully overrated as a bass player.

[thisnameistaken]

I've never seen the official league table of bass players so I don't know who is overrated and who isn't.

But I do find the flabbergasted worshippers quite amusing.

[Josh]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='673647' date='Dec 3 2009, 09:16 PM']I've never seen the official league table of bass players so I don't know who is overrated and who isn't.

But I do find the flabbergasted worshippers quite amusing. [/quote]

The comments section on any Youtube video counts as a good league table nowadays.

As do I.

[Wolverinebass]

I must confess McCartney leaves me very cold. Undeniably, a brilliant songwriter, but as a bassist? Er, no.

Funny that everyone goes for Jaco bashing. Whilst it's not my bag, you can't deny that he changed a great many people's views on bass and I think he's fantastic. Whilst I don't particularly like slap, you can't deny that King is amazingly good at it. I wouldn't diss anyone who is probably the best at what they do.

I'd also like to add Pino Palladino to my list of "criminally overated." However, that might have something to do with the fact that he replaced Entwistle in the Who and can't hold a candle to the man either in terms of tone or technique. I'm an Entwistle fan boy. My cards are now on the table. Seeing them play Glastonbury a few years ago on TV almost made me ill.

Adam Clayton as well. Though that could have something to do with the fact that U2's albums over the last 10 years have been awful.

For those who say that Entwistle didn't deserve "Bassist of the Millenium" tag, that's fair enough and a matter of opinion. Different genres are obviously going to put people off thus making objective comparisons impossible. Were Jaco still alive and recording maybe he would have won, though it's worth noting that he was further down the list than McCartney which is bonkers in my opinon. Who is really better at PLAYING the bass out of those 2?

The fact that Entwistle won that poll I would assume would have something to do with the 515 solo from the Who's 1999 - 2000 tour which went on before that poll was taken. Right or wrong, I'd always go for people who can play and solo well.

[BT!]

[quote name='Clarky' post='186073' date='Apr 26 2008, 05:20 PM']Anyone that plays a bass with more than six strings - its just showing off [/quote]
+1

[Bass_In_Yer_Face]

[quote name='Wolverinebass' post='673691' date='Dec 3 2009, 09:48 PM']I must confess McCartney leaves me very cold. Undeniably, a brilliant songwriter, but as a bassist? Er, no.

Funny that everyone goes for Jaco bashing. Whilst it's not my bag, you can't deny that he changed a great many people's views on bass and I think he's fantastic. Whilst I don't particularly like slap, you can't deny that King is amazingly good at it. I wouldn't diss anyone who is probably the best at what they do.

I'd also like to add Pino Palladino to my list of "criminally overated." However, that might have something to do with the fact that he replaced Entwistle in the Who and can't hold a candle to the man either in terms of tone or technique. I'm an Entwistle fan boy. My cards are now on the table. Seeing them play Glastonbury a few years ago on TV almost made me ill.

Adam Clayton as well. Though that could have something to do with the fact that U2's albums over the last 10 years have been awful.

For those who say that Entwistle didn't deserve "Bassist of the Millenium" tag, that's fair enough and a matter of opinion. Different genres are obviously going to put people off thus making objective comparisons impossible. Were Jaco still alive and recording maybe he would have won, though it's worth noting that he was further down the list than McCartney which is bonkers in my opinon. Who is really better at PLAYING the bass out of those 2?

The fact that Entwistle won that poll I would assume would have something to do with the 515 solo from the Who's 1999 - 2000 tour which went on before that poll was taken. Right or wrong, I'd always go for people who can play and solo well.[/quote]

Have to agree that Pino is no replacement for John Entwistle. I saw a live performance of 'My Generation' and was all excited waiting for the bass solo and it was crap.

Oh and yeah U2's albums have been terrible recently. I you listen to 'Boy', Adam Clayton was doing much more comlpicated stuff at 18 than he is now.

Oh and I'm afraid I don't get Jaco's stuff at all...leaves me totally cold.

[7string]

Over-rated should be defined as whatever you think it should be.

Personally, I reckon that Jaco, Wooten, Marcus Miller and Richard Bona are all over-rated. I have Jaco's solo album and I've heard Heavy Weather. Didn't do anything for me I'm afraid. The Beetle (VW) sounds the same everytime I hear him. I have the Yin Yang CD and some Flecktones stuff and play them every now and again. I end up turning it off after about 5 minutes. Marcus Miller has a great tone with his slap style but then the compostions are all a bit vanilla. I've heard that Bona makes people cry with his playing, but personally does nothing for me.

Each of these guys has a legion of fans and is highly respected it's just that their music doesn't move me at all.

Edited December 3, 2009 by 7string

[mgauction]

[quote name='7string' post='673790' date='Dec 3 2009, 04:57 PM']Over-rated should be defined as whatever you think it should be.

Personally, I reckon that Jaco, Wooten, Marcus Miller and Richard Bona are all over-rated. I have Jaco's solo album and I've heard Heavy Weather. Didn't do anything for me I'm afraid. The Beetle (VW) sounds the same everytime I hear him. I have the Yin Yang CD and some Flecktones stuff and play them every now and again. I end up turning it off after about 5 minutes. Marcus Miller has a great tone with his slap style but then the compostions are all a bit vanilla. I've heard that Bona makes people cry with his playing, but personally does nothing for me.

Each of these guys has a legion of fans and is highly respected it's just that their music doesn't move me at all.[/quote]

Very, very overrated; lousy music - definitely no soul whatsoever. I'll take a good simple bass groove in the pocket of a nice melody anytime!

[wombatboter]

Since this whole topic can't be taken serious : I don't take bassplayers who think McCartney isn' t an amazing bassplayer serious. I noticed that most of the bass-players around me who bash him, play lousy.
"Mrs Vanderbilt", "Something", "Silly Love Songs", "Old brown Shoe", etc...some of the best basslines on earth.

[William James Easton]

this is a good post.

i take the view that ALL bassists mentioned on these sacred pages are over rated. after all bass is the 'filler' instrument!

"nah we've got a drummer, guitar player, and xylophon(ist). but we 'need' a bassist...and you can't sing for toffee."

come on lighten up, you know its true!

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='mgauction' post='673880' date='Dec 4 2009, 06:19 AM']Very, very overrated; lousy music - definitely no soul whatsoever. I'll take a good simple bass groove in the pocket of a nice melody anytime![/quote]

OK, let's have your description of 'soul', then.

[lemmywinks]

[quote name='mgauction' post='673880' date='Dec 4 2009, 06:19 AM']Very, very overrated; lousy music - definitely no soul whatsoever. I'll take a good simple bass groove in the pocket of a nice melody anytime![/quote]


Jaco, no soul? Really?

Also he's laid down more than a few simple grooves in his time, check out "I Can Dig It Baby". Definition of in the pocket right there

[JamieBenzies]

[quote name='7string' post='673790' date='Dec 3 2009, 11:57 PM']Over-rated should be defined as whatever you think it should be.

Personally, I reckon that Jaco, Wooten, Marcus Miller and Richard Bona are all over-rated. I have Jaco's solo album and I've heard Heavy Weather. Didn't do anything for me I'm afraid. The Beetle (VW) sounds the same everytime I hear him. I have the Yin Yang CD and some Flecktones stuff and play them every now and again. I end up turning it off after about 5 minutes. Marcus Miller has a great tone with his slap style but then the compostions are all a bit vanilla. I've heard that Bona makes people cry with his playing, but personally does nothing for me.

Each of these guys has a legion of fans and is highly respected it's just that their music doesn't move me at all.[/quote]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iimMKWF7SK0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iimMKWF7SK0[/url]

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='673913' date='Dec 4 2009, 08:54 AM']OK, let's have your description of 'soul', then.[/quote]

Mmm...

[longtimefred]

been reading this thread for a few pages then decided to skip to the end for a post.

Been reading who people think are overrated etc and i have been trying to think of someone who i thought it. And to be honest i cant think of anyone, well bassists anyway. I love bassists and all their crazy different styles from Jason Newsted and his pure rhythm pounding aggression to Roger Waters who may not be the best technical player or anything, but to be able to put a good rhythm and melody that fits perfectly behind the man that is David Gilmour then just kicks ass!

At the moment the one person on the planet of music who i think is overrated is Morrissey! i just really cant stand him! lol.

[KennysFord]

[quote name='lemmywinks' post='673927' date='Dec 4 2009, 09:17 AM']Jaco, no soul? Really?

Also he's laid down more than a few simple grooves in his time, check out "I Can Dig It Baby". Definition of in the pocket right there[/quote]


Thanks for heads up on this one Rich,
Cool track dude.

[OutToPlayJazz]

I've heard people say several times now that certain music doesn't "move" them. I suppose that as a professional musician, I don't see music as an emotional experience. I like to listen to music that technically and texturally interests and intrigues me.

As a for instance, I can't listen to generic pop/rock music when in the car - It just bores me to death. I listen to Radio 4 in the car ninety-nine percent of the time when I can't be bothered to plug in the iPod.

Edited December 6, 2009 by OutToPlayJazz

[KennysFord]

+1 hehe.
The Archers Rawk !!

Edited December 6, 2009 by kennyrodg

[urb]

[quote name='benzies123' post='674439' date='Dec 4 2009, 07:08 PM'][url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iimMKWF7SK0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iimMKWF7SK0[/url]

[/quote]

Yeah that'll be that really souless, crappy singing, really awful bass and voice duet - I hate that too...

No idea why anyone would enjoy that at all

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='urb' post='675971' date='Dec 6 2009, 06:46 PM']Yeah that'll be that really souless, crappy singing, really awful bass and voice duet - I hate that too...

No idea why anyone would enjoy that at all [/quote]


I really actively dislike that but I did laugh at the name 'Richard Bona'

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='673647' date='Dec 3 2009, 09:16 PM']I've never seen the official league table of bass players so I don't know who is overrated and who isn't.

But I do find the flabbergasted worshippers quite amusing. [/quote]

Just for the record, I'm not a 'flabbergasted worshipper'. I actually know a great musician when I hear him or her.

Try reading the feature about Tal Wilkenfeld in the latest issue of Guitar and Bass Mag.

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='673913' date='Dec 4 2009, 08:54 AM']OK, let's have your description of 'soul', then.[/quote]

I'm still waiting.

[MacDaddy]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='675983' date='Dec 6 2009, 06:55 PM']I'm still waiting.[/quote]

if you got to ask, you ain't never gonna know