Overrated Bassists.

[bassbloke]

[quote name='simon1964' post='186189' date='Apr 26 2008, 09:44 PM']Agree with most of your post, but I actually think Flea has something of a bad press amongst us bassists. He's often held up as a ''one trick pony'' slap player, but in fact, a lot of RHCP's best stuff is completely slap free! Listen to songs like Californication, Soul to Squeeze, Scar Tissue, Dani California, and there's some really good, melodic (non-slap!) playing.[/quote]

As I've metioned on previous occasions, some of Flea's best playing isn't even on an RHCP song. He's the bassist on The Mars Volta's De-loused in the Comatorium. He also played on You Outta Know by Alanis Morrisette.

In fact, I'd go as far asto say that the problem with RHCP isn't Flea's playing, but the fact that a large proprtiion of the songs on Californication and By The Way are a bit dull.

[bassbloke]

[quote name='Doc B' post='186240' date='Apr 27 2008, 12:34 AM']Stu Hamm, Billy Sheehan and TM Stevens

Their signature basses are all rank too....

Pulls on flak jacket, kevlar helmet and a [b]Trojan[/b]....[/quote]

Why do you need to wear a condom?

[Doc B]

[quote name='bassbloke' post='186282' date='Apr 27 2008, 06:11 AM']Why do you need to wear a condom?[/quote]

You need all the protection you can get these days

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='matty589' post='186224' date='Apr 26 2008, 11:51 PM']If you read the question, then your reply misses the point. Who is rating the player in the first place? It can't be you otherwise how can you rate them and then say they are overrated? Logically we are being asked who WE think is overrated by THE WIDER WORLD. If the wider world have rated them to any significant degree then what is said here is, quite literally, a way to waste time. An opinion is only worth having if it is backed up with knowledge, experience and some kind of supporting evidence. Saying "I think Jaco is overrated" is like saying "I think blue is not golf". Meaningless.

By the way, which washer-dryers are, in your opinion, overrated? [/quote]

Egad's - this is a bit much for a Sunday morning! ...looks for Edward De Bono's 'I am Right, You are Wrong' first edition before sitting down to compose a sensible reply..

You're talking complete bollocks, sir!

In your post you said: [i]"Overrated by who? Without wishing to descend into an argument, does the wider world care what the posters on this thread think?"[/i]

Obviously, the wider world doesn't care what we think because that's not the point of this thread. But the person who posted this topic, Josh, does care what we think. And it's to Josh and other Basschat members that our opinions are addressed..

Saying "I think Jaco is overrated" is a completely consistent, logical statement in the context in which it is being expressed here in this thread....
Especially as he is

[Dubs]

[quote name='BassManKev' post='186231' date='Apr 27 2008, 12:11 AM']victor wooten[/quote]

how is he over rated? explain...

[Kev]

for the reasons that have already been said in the first page of this thread

sure, he can play fast, but to my ears, most double slap sounds pretty, well, rubbish...

[bass_ferret]

[quote name='peteb' post='186094' date='Apr 26 2008, 06:50 PM']That’s part of the problem for me – saying that you don’t like Motown is like declaring that your hobby is torturing small puppy dogs!!

I can’t say that I hate Motown as such, but if I never hear some [b]rubbish DJ[/b] playing a Motown set again at a wedding / birthday party / work function it would not worry me at all….[/quote]Its not the motown thats the problem - its rubbish DJ's. Specially when they play readmixes and pick their noses for 10 minutes, or lack the imagination (just my) to play anything other than the obvious.

[quote name='peteb' post='186094' date='Apr 26 2008, 06:50 PM']Find it difficult to understand all the hate for Jaco here – surely one of the greats on any instrument, not just bass[/quote]Its not hate, but the question was about over rated players and a lot of bass player geeks think he sits at gods right hand. No one is denying his chops and ability as a bass player - we just dont like what he plays. He has also influenced a generation of players that most people have never heard of and wont like.

OTOH, loads of bass players in bands that people do know and like say they are influenced by Jamerson - even now. That includes Macca, who was a Beatle FFS - that trumps any bass player, and Glen Matlock (who thought it was Carol Kaye) - the bass players in two bands that had a massive impact far beyond the wildest dreams of all of us.

[Dubs]

[quote name='BassManKev' post='186332' date='Apr 27 2008, 10:24 AM']for the reasons that have already been said in the first page of this thread

sure, he can play fast, but to my ears, most double slap sounds pretty, well, rubbish...[/quote]

not exactly well argued points, but whilst I don't agree with you on the double slap thing being "rubbish" (as it is incredibly skilful - can you do it?), i subscribe to Oscar South's views that he is an amazing musician and his arrangements are incredible. Slapping aside, if you haven’t watched or heard him playing Norwegian Wood then check it out.


Edit: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9a4ThBNacY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9a4ThBNacY[/url] - that was at Bass Day '98

Edited April 27, 2008 by benwhiteuk

[bass_ferret]

[quote name='benwhiteuk' post='186345' date='Apr 27 2008, 10:37 AM']not exactly well argued points, but whilst I don't agree with you on the double slap thing being "rubbish" (as it is incredibly skilful - can you do it?), i subscribe to Oscar South's views that he is an amazing musician and his arrangements are incredible. Slapping aside, if you haven’t watched or heard him playing Norwegian Wood then check it out.

Edit: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9a4ThBNacY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9a4ThBNacY[/url] - that was at Bass Day '98[/quote]
Wonderful playing - I actually watched it all and that is unusual for that sort of gig. I dont think it would have gone down very well had I played it at the Empire Club last night though. Nor any other Ferrets gig I have ever done. Lots of this stuff on poo tube comes from gigs like that. Had it been at Wembly it might have more credibility for non bass geeks.

I think what it comes down to is there are two kinds of people on basschat (excluding Mrs T who is in a class of her own). Bass geeks and bass players and I doubt if the two will ever agree on stuff like this.

[Kev]

[quote name='benwhiteuk' post='186345' date='Apr 27 2008, 10:37 AM']not exactly well argued points, but whilst I don't agree with you on the double slap thing being "rubbish" (as it is incredibly skilful - can you do it?), i subscribe to Oscar South's views that he is an amazing musician and his arrangements are incredible. Slapping aside, if you haven’t watched or heard him playing Norwegian Wood then check it out.


Edit: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9a4ThBNacY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9a4ThBNacY[/url] - that was at Bass Day '98[/quote]

i didnt say it was rubbish, i said it sounded rubbish it is indeed skillful, and i can only do it slowly, but its not something i want to perfect as i just dont think it sound good! IMO

[Kev]

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='186361' date='Apr 27 2008, 11:02 AM']Wonderful playing - I actually watched it all and that is unusual for that sort of gig. I dont think it would have gone down very well had I played it at the Empire Club last night though. Nor any other Ferrets gig I have ever done. Lots of this stuff on poo tube comes from gigs like that. Had it been at Wembly it might have more credibility for non bass geeks.

[b]I think what it comes down to is there are two kinds of people on basschat (excluding Mrs T who is in a class of her own). Bass geeks and bass players and I doubt if the two will ever agree on stuff like this.[/b][/quote]
very true

personally i just dont appreciate all the complex techniques, coz basically it just doesnt appeal to me, for me nothing beats good old fashioned playing

Edited April 27, 2008 by BassManKev

[Josh]

Double Thumbing is something that will always be in debate for as long as the instrument is around, but we all know it's a tool at the end of the day, for me, it's ok, it's pretty nifty for adding a percussive feel but not for soloing, much more Marcus Miller than Wooten.



An example of VW grooving with NO double thumbing:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czu8TUgWkE8"]Zenergy[/url]


Thought of a few more players who I think are overrated, all with respect:

Roger Waters
Pino Palladino
John Taylor

Edited April 27, 2008 by Josh

[Dubs]

[quote name='BassManKev' post='186367' date='Apr 27 2008, 11:11 AM']for me nothing beats good old fashioned playing [/quote]

True. I think I appreciate it on a “man, I wish I could do that” kind of level cos it’s technically amazing and a good bit of ear candy, and I think the double slap techniques are well impressive and sound great. Saying this, I can also appreciate a simple groove that’s perfectly played with the perfect feel – there’s a lot to be said for not over complicating things.

I almost find it shocking that Victor Wooten has been mentioned quite a few times yet Marcus Miller has not? Is it because he has his own signature Jazz?

Both amazing players in their own right, and both 'over use' their individual technique or might be called "one trick ponies". In my mind this doesn't detract from their musicianship or make their music any less enjoyable to listen to.

[matty589]

[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='186325' date='Apr 27 2008, 10:15 AM']Egad's - this is a bit much for a Sunday morning! ...looks for Edward De Bono's 'I am Right, You are Wrong' first edition before sitting down to compose a sensible reply..

You're talking complete bollocks, sir!

In your post you said: [i]"Overrated by who? Without wishing to descend into an argument, does the wider world care what the posters on this thread think?"[/i]

Obviously, the wider world doesn't care what we think because that's not the point of this thread. But the person who posted this topic, Josh, does care what we think. And it's to Josh and other Basschat members that our opinions are addressed..

Saying "I think Jaco is overrated" is a completely consistent, logical statement in the context in which it is being expressed here in this thread....
Especially as he is [/quote]
Well I'm glad you have aired your opinion. I bet we all feel well informed and have learnt something new today.
One thing I have to concede: when it comes to talking bollocks, I couldn't possibly keep pace with you

Edited April 27, 2008 by matty589

[Rich]

[quote name='Josh' post='186374' date='Apr 27 2008, 11:22 AM']Pino Palladino[/quote]

*jaw hits floor with a very audible 'clang'*

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='matty589' post='186380' date='Apr 27 2008, 11:23 AM']Well I'm glad you have aired your opinion. I bet we all feel well informed and have learnt something new today.
One thing I have to concede: when it comes to talking bollocks, I couldn't possibly keep pace with you [/quote]
Surely, you're not overratting me are you?

[matty589]

[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='186398' date='Apr 27 2008, 11:51 AM']Surely, you're not overratting me are you? [/quote]
I don't think you're a rat at all, and I certainly wouldn't overrat you

[warwickhunt]

The original query asks who 'you' think is over-rated... surely if you list a bassist that you don't like, that then means that they can't be over-rated.

You don't rate them at all, hence they can not by definition be over-rated by you

[matty589]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='186408' date='Apr 27 2008, 12:09 PM']The original query asks who 'you' think is over-rated... surely if you list a bassist that you don't like, that then means that they can't be over-rated.

You don't rate them at all, hence they can not by definition be over-rated by you [/quote]
Ah, finally some intelligence!
But then you like Warwicks

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='matty589' post='186412' date='Apr 27 2008, 12:13 PM']Ah, finally some intelligence!
But then you like Warwicks [/quote]

... and I over-rate myself

[Dubs]

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='186408' date='Apr 27 2008, 12:09 PM']The original query asks who 'you' think is over-rated... surely if you list a bassist that you don't like, that then means that they can't be over-rated.

You don't rate them at all, hence they can not by definition be over-rated by you [/quote]

ahh...the refreshing voice of reason

[bass_ferret]

I thought the purpose of this thread was to talk bollocks not enter into deep discussion on the meaning of over-rated.

[chardbass]

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='186423' date='Apr 27 2008, 12:32 PM']I thought the purpose of this thread was to talk bollocks not enter into deep discussion on the meaning of over-rated.[/quote]

Was wondering why you had posted so many comments already

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='186423' date='Apr 27 2008, 12:32 PM']I thought the purpose of this thread was to talk bollocks not enter into deep discussion on the meaning of over-rated.[/quote]

Correct! I 'was' talking b*ll*cks but it sounded good

[Dread Bass]

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='186423' date='Apr 27 2008, 12:32 PM']I thought the purpose of this thread was to talk bollocks not enter into deep discussion on the meaning of over-rated.[/quote]

Ferret i think that is the first time me and you have agreed on anything.

Its just a bit of fun