bass_ferret Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 [quote name='bass_ferret' post='186423' date='Apr 27 2008, 12:32 PM']I thought the purpose of this thread was to talk bollocks not enter into deep discussion on the meaning of over-rated.[/quote] [quote name='chardbass' post='186427' date='Apr 27 2008, 12:37 PM']Was wondering why you had posted so many comments already [/quote] I like talking bollocks. Much more interesting than "read the wiki"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB1 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 (edited) [quote name='silverfoxnik' post='186063' date='Apr 26 2008, 06:08 PM']Mark King, Level 42 Though unbelievably dextrous, in my opinion, his playing and music is souless, funkless, 80s shiny blue-eyed pop.. More a technician than musician Loads better than I could ever be, but highly overrated..[/quote] MB1. I am not in agreement with this statement Each to there own surely?....... Edited April 27, 2008 by MB1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 [quote name='matty589' post='186401' date='Apr 27 2008, 11:54 AM']I don't think you're a rat at all, and I certainly wouldn't overrat you [/quote] Some of my best friends are rats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 [quote name='warwickhunt' post='186408' date='Apr 27 2008, 12:09 PM']The original query asks who 'you' think is over-rated... surely if you list a bassist that you don't like, that then means that they can't be over-rated. You don't rate them at all, hence they can not by definition be over-rated by you [/quote] Not at all.. If for example, I don't like a particular bassist such as Mark King, that doesn't preclude that fact that lots of other people do 'rate' Mr King. Therefore IMHO, he is 'over-rated (overrated, overratted etc, etc whatever...) because too many other people 'rate' him, when I don't. Simple really, but then you knew that already, didn't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilb Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 (edited) [quote name='bass_ferret' post='186423' date='Apr 27 2008, 12:32 PM']I thought the purpose of this thread was to talk bollocks not enter into deep discussion on the meaning of over-rated.[/quote] LOL loudly Oh, and by the way, if [i][b]ANYONE[/b][/i] lists The Ox/Thunderfingers/Big Johnny Twinkle, I will find out where you live and eat your family. Edited April 27, 2008 by neilb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnylager Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 [quote name='uptonmark' post='186067' date='Apr 26 2008, 06:16 PM']steve harris[/quote] Heresy. From a hammer too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bay Splayer Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 [quote name='bass_ferret' post='186423' date='Apr 27 2008, 12:32 PM']I thought the purpose of this thread was to [b]talk bollocks [/b]not enter into deep discussion on the meaning of over-rated.[/quote] i once saw a testicle having a chat with another testicle......... now they really were [b]talking bollocks[/b] i`ll get my coat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 With all due respect,I'm am going to say that I honestly believe that John Entwhistle is the most over-rated bassist(sorry neilb). Based on the fact that he was voted 'Bassist of the millenium',automatically makes him-in my opinion- seriously over-rated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 [quote name='silverfoxnik' post='186063' date='Apr 26 2008, 06:08 PM']Mark King, Level 42 Though unbelievably dextrous, in my opinion, his playing and music is souless, funkless, 80s shiny blue-eyed pop.. More a technician than musician Loads better than I could ever be, but highly overrated..[/quote] I think you have a point but to be fair he's very much a bassist of his time. I remember seeing him in Plymouth for the first time and, after countless years of learning the usual basslines, was very disappointed by the sheer brutality of his playing. Out of all the bass gods suggested so far I'd like to propose Marcus Miller. His playing is very polished for sure and I'm not knocking the guy for technique or accomplishment either but I got a DVD of his performance on the Ohne Filter TV show and couldn't sit all the way through it. I just wanted so much to see him do something other than pop away at melodies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Again.... it's all about personal opinion..... I can't stand Miller.... I think he's a wast of space.... but thats just me.... I can appreciate his playing but I find his style and sound irritatingly boring.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 [quote name='Doddy' post='186700' date='Apr 27 2008, 07:54 PM']With all due respect,I'm am going to say that I honestly believe that John Entwhistle is the most over-rated bassist(sorry neilb). Based on the fact that he was voted 'Bassist of the millenium',automatically makes him-in my opinion- seriously over-rated.[/quote] He's certainly one of the most mis-spelled bassists in history ;-) But he's definitely one of the giants on whose shoulders many of us stand, and the inspiration to countless players who otherwise wouldn't have realised just how exciting bass could be. 'Bassist of the milennium' is silly, I agree. 'anything' of the milennium is, really, isn't it. That solo in My Generation - if you could put it into words you'd want it on your gravestone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 [quote name='Doddy' post='186700' date='Apr 27 2008, 07:54 PM']With all due respect,I'm am going to say that I honestly believe that John Entwhistle is the most over-rated bassist(sorry neilb). Based on the fact that he was voted 'Bassist of the millenium',automatically makes him-in my opinion- seriously over-rated.[/quote] Well he was voted 'Bassist of the millenium' by guitarists - thats why Jaco did not win it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayfan Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 [quote name='neilb' post='186633' date='Apr 27 2008, 06:06 PM']Oh, and by the way, if [i][b]ANYONE[/b][/i] lists The Ox/Thunderfingers/Big Johnny Twinkle, I will find out where you live and eat your family. [/quote] Er... I always though he overplayed. We do My Generation as a cover. Sounds a lot better when you take all the noodling out in the verses. :ducks for cover: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Isn't this discussion inevitably flawed by the introduction of the concept of genres. If a person is popular as a bass player in a popular genre, s/he is inevitably going to be rated more highly than an underground hero. So Steve Harris is going to be rated more highly as a HM player than Jaco or Manring despite it being patently obvious to anyone that can hold a bass that Harris is not even close to being in their league in terms of technique, innovation or musicality (that is an objective not subjective point). So, Harris is, by definition, overrated. Sorry, but Entwhistle is the same, as are 1,000 other pop/rock players. Whenever I read these forums, I am always astonished by the ways in which people of limited listening experience will nail their colours to the mast in praising their favourite players as geniuses (genii?): just look at all the 'underrated' player threads - mediocroty is more than enough for many people. My point is this; surely the purpose of the exercise is to embed the bass part into the ensemble in as creative and musical a way as possible. Jaco was famous for his shreadding but his most successful work is when he is integrated into the compositional whole - that is when he shines, not when he is somersaulting onto his bass. Wooten is a clinician, an athelete, a circus act - but I have never heard him make music better using his (copious) skills . Same with Bill 'the trainwreck' Dickens. Jeff Berlin is another great technician but he needs a producer SOOO badly (has anyone heard those ludicrous Norah Jones things he has put on his MySpace page- somebody TELL him, please). So, for me, the overrated bass players are not the clever, technical ones per se, but the ones who do 'clever' bass things that don't contribute positively, with integrity and class, to the music being performed. My problem with Jameson isn't his playing - its those bl***y awful Motown tunes: acres of bubblegum with no emotional depth. I like his mind, his way ofnegotiating the changes but, for God's sake, don'tmake me listen to that dreadful stuff any more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenofthedepths Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Hahaha, nice post bilbo! IMO, over-rated means either: 1. The player receives more recognition than s/he deserves OR 2. The majority of people (or perhaps just bassists - how many non-musos rate Wooten for his technical skills?) perceive the player as being better than s/he actually is ...in the opinion of whoever thinks they're over-rated, anyway I say Flea is over-rated because way too many bassists say he's the best thing ever - he gets a lot of recognition for being in a famous band and for slapping ostentatiously... I think he's great, but I think the average opinion of him is higher than it should be Hope that makes sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubs Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 [quote name='queenofthedepths' post='186820' date='Apr 27 2008, 10:17 PM']I say Flea is over-rated because way too many bassists say he's the best thing ever - he gets a lot of recognition for being in a famous band and for slapping ostentatiously... I think he's great, but I think the average opinion of him is higher than it should be[/quote] +1 on this deffo. Flea is an amazing player but he does get far more praise because he's in a mahousive band. No one would know him if the Chili's didnt happen and he was still playing cheese funk rock in dirty Hollywood strip bars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenofthedepths Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 [quote name='benwhiteuk' post='186822' date='Apr 27 2008, 10:21 PM']+1 on this deffo. Flea is an amazing player but he does get far more praise because he's in a mahousive band. No one would know him if the Chili's didnt happen and he was still playing cheese funk rock in dirty Hollywood strip bars.[/quote] He's even an over-rated trumpeter! I mean there are plenty of equally-skilled players out there who just don't get the recognition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty589 Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 [quote name='benwhiteuk' post='186822' date='Apr 27 2008, 10:21 PM']No one would know him if the Chili's didnt happen and he was still playing cheese funk rock in dirty Hollywood strip bars.[/quote] I didn't realise it before, but that now sounds like my life's ambition! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenofthedepths Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 [quote name='matty589' post='186826' date='Apr 27 2008, 10:26 PM']I didn't realise it before, but that now sounds like my life's ambition! [/quote] It's annoying to think that he achieved that and had to take it even further - I believe most of us would be immensely satisfied with that level of success! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilb Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 [quote name='stingrayfan' post='186789' date='Apr 27 2008, 09:30 PM']Er... I always though he overplayed. We do My Generation as a cover. Sounds a lot better when you take all the noodling out in the verses. :ducks for cover:[/quote] We do The Real Me...... and the "noodling" makes the song. Anyhoo.... When your guitarist is sh*te at lead playing (as PT was), he needed to overplay to provide melody and variation. I fully accept that Player of the Millenium was typical magasine speak and totally OTT. I cant believe I am about to say this, but JE was perfect for The Who, his style and sound was crucial in making those classic records, BUT, he was lost in any other band, If you here him "guesting" with other bands, I must admit it sounds out of place. A band had to fit round John, not the other way round. That does not make him over rated though, just inflexible I suppose. For flexibility, I suppose players like Nathan East (Clapton, Collins, Bocelli) must get the hats tipped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 flea is a brilliant bassist, but he certainly does not see himself as being one of the best. he's just a guy doin what he loves, and couldnt care less what other musicians thought of him. its a shame that he is hyped up to be the best, but then again, i far prefer his playin to the likes of wootnen, he doesnt overcomplicate thing, and has wrote some superb, if not simple bass lines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubs Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 (edited) [quote name='BassManKev' post='186848' date='Apr 27 2008, 10:52 PM']he doesnt overcomplicate thing[/quote] ????? yeah he does flea is a great player man and he definitely doesnt blow his own trumpet, and i grew up listening to the chilis and everything up to and including Californication was great and really helped me to learn the bass, but... he's still over rated even if he doesnt shout about being good. Edited April 27, 2008 by benwhiteuk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasted Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 Flea's a great bass player, but I don't rate him as a musician. A little music theory would go along way with him. If you look at some of the live stuff especially it's full of mistakes and there's at least 4/5 times a set when he's playing off key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted April 27, 2008 Share Posted April 27, 2008 (edited) [quote name='benwhiteuk' post='186857' date='Apr 27 2008, 11:00 PM']????? yeah he does[/quote] how so? in comparisson to some of the other bassists mentioned? and ye, far as i know flea knows practically no theory, which makes some of his basslines seem even more impressive if it was done without theory, which i know for certain that all pre bssm at least stuff was Edited April 27, 2008 by BassManKev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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