Overrated Bassists.

[greyparrot]

[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='186122' date='Apr 26 2008, 07:38 PM']That's not the point, with respect..

The original post - by a member of Basschat, asked fellow Basschat members - who we thought were overrated. Therefore, it's a question about our opinions here, not about the achievements of the bassists in question out there in the 'wider world'..

So IMHO, it's just a harmless way to pass the time and definitely not a way to start arguements.. [/quote]



God rest his soul but to me John enthwistel. Jaco on the other hand is the best to me, and so is Mark king!! all personal tast.

[Jono Bolton]

[quote name='BassManKev' post='187388' date='Apr 28 2008, 05:21 PM']theory to play fast? who on earth suggested you did?[/quote]

That's basically all that constitute Flea's basslines, speed and slap technique. He's not very melodic, so why does his lack of theory make his lines more impressive?

[matty589]

[quote name='tauzero' post='187226' date='Apr 28 2008, 02:06 PM']I've listened to it once. What a pile of tedious turgid crap it is too.[/quote]
Really. Good, well glad to have your opinion.

[matty589]

[quote name='tauzero' post='187207' date='Apr 28 2008, 01:52 PM']Um. Yes.[/quote]
Doing what? Riding your bike?

[simon1964]

[quote name='jono b' post='187428' date='Apr 28 2008, 05:59 PM']That's basically all that constitute Flea's basslines, speed and slap technique. He's not very melodic, so why does his lack of theory make his lines more impressive?[/quote]

I have to disagree with that! Some of Flea's best stuff isn't fast and isn't slap. You mentioned Soul to Squeeze earlier as an example of melodic playing. Have a listen to Under the Bridge, Scar Tissue, Californication, The Zephyr Song etc. All melodic and all slap free. As I said in an earlier post, I think Flea is actually unfairly labelled as a one trick (slap playing!) pony.

[bass_ferret]

[quote name='stingrayfan' post='186789' date='Apr 27 2008, 09:30 PM']Er...

I always though he overplayed. We do My Generation as a cover. Sounds a lot better when you take all the noodling out in the verses.

:ducks for cover:[/quote]
f*** knows what version you have been listening to with noodling in the verse. Even The Ox could not noodle on 2 notes

[trent900]

[quote name='queenofthedepths' post='187053' date='Apr 28 2008, 10:53 AM']To us it's just friendly banter; not a waste of time at all! I'm a student so I have nothing to do except r*v*s* for easy *x*ms, so today I'll get 3 hours of band rehearsal and plenty of practise on my own as well as a lot of time "wasted" socialising on basschat... instead of watching TV, which is what you call productive? Sorry again if I seem rude, but please stop trying to bring us down for having a fun discussion - arguments like "OMG how can you say The Ox is over-rated?!! He's the best thing ever!" are all part of the fun - telling us the discussion is futile is just unreasonable - it's just bass chat!
If I say Cliff Burton is over-rated (and I do), it's because thousands of Metallica fans seem to worship him, which, IMO, is more than he deserves... Flea gets the same treatment and so do many others - the fact that they're better bassists than I am doesn't enter into it - I can have opinions on the merits of flautists but I've never even touched a flute*
Anyone can be over-rated and we're all entitled to state our opinions - in fact, I WANT to know what people think

*I'm pretty sure someone will drag an innuendo out of them[/quote]

+100000000

In [i]your[/i] endo.

Would it be fair to say that the general feeling of this thread is noodlers and showoffs = bad therefore presumably rock-solid groovemasters = good?

Maybe I'd better give up on trying to learn to double-thumb. But [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAs0IBmBiOk"]this[/url] is just so funky...

[bass_ferret]

For me its about the music. And also about some sort of perverse dislike of commercially successful artists - like you can only be really great if nobody knows about it. Thus the great bass players secret, Jaco Pastorius, that nobody else knows about, is rated above guys like Macca, The Ox, Flea, Roger Waters, Steve Harris, even Mark King, who were all in massive bands loved by millions (but even then Mark King nerds will rate the stuff before they were successful and Chilli's nerds BSSM - and I do think the Chilli's nerds are right as I had lots of Chilli's stuff before they hit the big time).

I can dig Heavy Weather but no matter how many times I listen to the Pastorius album I just dont like it, nor does anyone else I have played it to. Thats what makes me say he is over-rated. His chops and technique were fabulous, ingenius, whatever superlative you want to apply I wont argue; but much of the music was sh*t.

[trent900]

The impression I get is that Jaco's reputation is built heavily on Birdland and Havona, which is hairy muff, as they say, both being masterpieces. His reputation with [i]me[/i] is based more or less solely on 1:46 in the album version of Birdland, I'll say no more. Beyond that, I would agree that his album was pretty forgettable.

I hesitate to say this, but I sometimes feel Jaco has benefitted from what I call 'Lennon syndrome'. However patchy you were in life, if you suffer an untimely death you can rest assured of eternal life as a legend. Horrible thing to say, but I find it to be true...

[Kev]

[quote name='jono b' post='187428' date='Apr 28 2008, 05:59 PM']That's basically all that constitute Flea's basslines, speed and slap technique. He's not very melodic, so why does his lack of theory make his lines more impressive?[/quote]
wow, you dont know much by flea at all, do you?

[matty589]

With all due respect, there are a fair few posts here that seem to exhibit narrow-mindedness and ignorance. Fine if you don't like the way someone plays but just about everyone mentioned as being overrated has achieved far more as a musician and a bass player than anyone here ever will. R.I.P Jaco, the Ox and all the other fine bass players no longer with us. And good luck bickering some more as I've had enough

[Kev]

didnt u say somethin like that on the last page as well? if you dont like the thread, dont participate in it

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='matty589' post='187703' date='Apr 28 2008, 11:43 PM']With all due respect, there are a fair few posts here that seem to exhibit narrow-mindedness and ignorance. Fine if you don't like the way someone plays but [b]just about everyone mentioned as being overrated has achieved far more as a musician and a bass player than anyone here ever will[/b]. R.I.P Jaco, the Ox and all the other fine bass players no longer with us. And good luck bickering some more as I've had enough [/quote]

I beg to differ... much earlier in the thread I put myself forward and I've done f*ck all as a musician or bass player

This was a pointless exercise from its inception and should be treat thus!

[rockinbassman]

I am totally neutral here and not slagging anyones comments, or playing ability.
I can totally understand what people are saying, I have only read a section of this thread as it is so god damn long... I agree with attitudes to people such as wooten, his solo stuff is too 'clowish' technically brilliant, but where does it fit into a set?!! But still, how many videos are there of people trying to emulate what he plays. Then you listen to something like 'The Vision' by him which is harmonically excellent. Also I have seen him live, and god cant he groove. Mark king again is another name that pops to my head... slap... all in E!!! But good in his way... people love his playing.
All of these people are unique in their own way. Jaco is a fantastic player, there might be people better than him now, and even in his time, but still his playing is special in its own way, and we have a lot to learn from these people.

As for 'session' players such as Jamerson... I have met and played with lots of 'session' musicians. I met a drummer, and I really cant remember his name... I will add it when I remember! He had played with sooo many people, and is really really busy... but he wasnt the most amazing drummer in the world... this narrows down to the 'who you know' situation, but no matter how good you are technically, its what you do with it, and how you apply yourself.

Also back to the situation of people saying 'Who is Jaco?' which I read earlier... one of my favorite players is Baron Browne (if thats how you spell it) he plays with Steve smith... fusion stuff, he is a killer groove player... BUT not many people have heard of him... fair enough thats what I LIKE... what my point here is that people have their favorites... im fed up of people saying at gigs "oh you play bass... isnt Flea the best bass player you have ever seen", yes I respect Flea and love alot of his playing, and one of my good bass playing mates plays alot of 'Flea like' stuff but thats who THEY think is good to them, so fair enough, its all down to taste... some people like Mark King, some Wootens 'Clown Playing' and the list goes on but its totally down to personal taste and preference. It doesnt matter if people have made it commercially, or have NEVER been heard of, im sure there are some incredible bass players out there who have never left there bedroom... Its all down to what people want to do and what people want to listen to!!!
Im sure I could list some bass players that I think are 'overrated', but if they are doing or have done something good on them!

At the end of the day, I know that I play, because I have a passion for my instrument and always strive to the best I can...
Let people listen to the music they want to listen to, and discuss it, after all this is BASSCHAT, where we discuss things, not rip people to shreds, if YOU dont personally like something, its not to say someone else doesnt!!

Damn im blabbing, really didnt get out what I wanted to say, but you may get the gist!!

Edited April 29, 2008 by rockinbassman

[paul, the]

I don't care who's considered overrated. It has little relevance to anything. If a popular bassist managed to inadvertently introduce the instrument to a kid, then that's more than good enough for me.

[quote name='matty589' post='186880' date='Apr 27 2008, 11:26 PM'](how can someone who was nearly late for a Miles Davis gig because he was taking a balloon ride not be cool!)[/quote]

Thank you for enlightening me on how cool MM is.

[ashgeezer]

Theres some interesting bass players on this list but what you"ve gotta remember is everyone has different tastes so technically theres no such thing as an overated bass player.
Personally i"m a huge fan of steve harris and geezer butler as they were the players that made me want to pick up and learn the bass.
I dont dislike any bass player to be honest, regardless of which genre they belong to, i like listening to em all, i would rather listen to jason newstead than cliff burton but thats just my opinion and wont suit all the metallica fans out there

[johnnylager]

[quote name='ashgeezer' post='187776' date='Apr 29 2008, 07:52 AM']...i would rather listen to jason newstead than cliff burton [/quote]
Heresy!

[Jase]

I'm surprised Geddy, JPJ or Jack Bruce haven't had a mention yet.

[BigBeefChief]

Being called overated isn't always a criticism.

I think most of the bass players mentionned on here would willingly agree that they are overated in some quaters. Calling Victor Wooten the best player of all time is overating him. It doesn't detract from the fact that he certainly knows his onions.

Its more of a statement about his fans than his playing ability. If anything, I'd be happy to have fans that idolise me so much that they "overate" me.

And as for the people moaning about these kind of threads - you're smart enough to switch on a PC and use the internet, but not smart enough to realise this is purely based on opinion? If you don't like it, why keep BUMPing it up with your pointless comments?


And for what its worth:

Mark King : Technically very clever, musically terrible

Jaco : Just not my cup of tea

Flea : Fleas.

Edited April 29, 2008 by BigBeefChief

[kevbucket]

[quote name='BassManKev' post='186365' date='Apr 27 2008, 11:10 AM']i didnt say it was rubbish, i said it sounded rubbish it is indeed skillful, and i can only do it slowly, but its not something i want to perfect as i just dont think it sound good! IMO[/quote]

just a quick note on this debate guys , never really listened to a lot of the mentioned "bassist" being brought into question,
but this clip of victor wooten is very technical and impressive but it sounds like he is rolling marbles down the neck !!
it's not what i signed up to play bass for 34 year ago !
like i say im not here to slag any one but all that tippy tappy stuff is not for me ,

kev

[Jase]

I'm quite enjoying this thread, it's good to hear all the different opinions on the players mentioned, it's healthy in my opinion, although I haven't made any serious comments about any players.....yet. Ferret brought up a good point on the Jaco side of things....about people not knowing who he was, I was going to suggest that generally it's musicians who know about Jaco but saying that, there is only one member in a covers band who I play with that sort of knows who Jaco was and these are players that have been around for ever who love to talk nonsense about guitars, music and players, weird innit!

[thepurpleblob]

Mmmm..... The Jaco thing keeps coming up. I'd never heard of him before I started playing the bass and reading forums like these on the Interweb. What's more I *owned* a copy of Heavy Weather (he does play on that, yes?) and had never noticed the bass playing one way or another. Since then I have listened to at most half of one of his tracks, and that was only out of curiosity. I guess though, time marches on - he must have influenced a great many players at the time, he just doesn't seem so relevant now. Being dead probably doesn't help either.

Ditto Wooten - a brilliant player of course, just not particularly listenable. I went to see Bella Fleck et al play live last year. Left half way through. Very, very boring. Self indulgent even.

[WalMan]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='187832' date='Apr 29 2008, 09:58 AM']Being called overated isn't always a criticism.

I think most of the bass players mentionned on here would willingly agree that they are overated in some quaters. Calling Voctor Wooten the best player of all time is overating him. It doesn't detract from the fact that he certainly knows his onions.

Its more of a statement about his fans than his playing ability. If anything, I'd be happy to have fans that idolise me so much that they "overate" me.

And as for the people moaning about these kind of threads - you're smart enough to switch on a PC and use the internet, but not smart enough to realise this is purely based on opinion? If you don't like it, what keep BUMPing it up with your pointless comments?


And for what its worth:

Mark King : Technically very clever, musically terrible

Jaco : Just not my cup of tea

Flea : Fleas.[/quote]
At last! The voice of reason.

And can I add IMO

Les Claypool - which is just my [i]possibly[/i] blinkered opinion, perhaps because I just don't "get" his rather bizarre musical stylings

Jaco - I've tried, honest I have. Love his stuff on Heavy Weather, but find his solo albums (which I picked up on re releases in an HMV sale a couple of years back) heavy going and largely unlistenable

Flea - Can do some nice solid parts, but again I find him - and a lot of RHCP's output - hard going. The Hyde Park show that was broadcast on the radio a while back was dreadful, but that's just my opinion.

BUT these are just my opinions to add to a thread I have read, but until now managed to stay out of.

Edited April 29, 2008 by WalMan

[Jase]

[quote name='thepurpleblob' post='187868' date='Apr 29 2008, 10:32 AM']Mmmm..... The Jaco thing keeps coming up. I'd never heard of him before I started playing the bass and reading forums like these on the Interweb. What's more I *owned* a copy of Heavy Weather (he does play on that, yes?) and had never noticed the bass playing one way or another. Since then I have listened to at most half of one of his tracks, and that was only out of curiosity. I guess though, time marches on - he must have influenced a great many players at the time, he just doesn't seem so relevant now. Being dead probably doesn't help either.

Ditto Wooten - a brilliant player of course, just not particularly listenable. I went to see Bella Fleck et al play live last year. Left half way through. Very, very boring. Self indulgent even.[/quote]


Yes, time does march on, I think he and other legendary bass players earned their place but at the same time bass playing has moved on, there are other players with valid things to say.

[Bassassin]

[quote name='matty589' post='187703' date='Apr 28 2008, 11:43 PM']With all due respect, there are a fair few posts here that seem to exhibit narrow-mindedness and ignorance.

...everyone mentioned as being overrated has achieved far more as a musician and a bass player than anyone here ever will.[/quote]
Something to do with pots & kettles here, friend. I wasn't going to get drawn into this (basically a discussion where the word "overrated" has become confused with "I don't like..." ) but in one choice little phrase you have just urinated all over the effort, commitment, achievements & aspirations of every single member here.

I can really only speak for myself - but music - playing it, composing it, performing it, recording it - constitutes a dominant part of what makes me want to get up each morning. I don't expect, anticipate, seek or wish for the sort of commercial success & popular acceptance that you appear to think validates a musician's existence - creating or playing music which is of value to me is its own reward.

Any musician who doesn't grasp this would be better off doing something else.

Jon.