Rich Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 The distinction between 'bassists' and 'musicians' is an interesting one. Whilst it is true really that the one is the other -- if you play bass, then you're playing music, ergo... -- there is also the aspect mentioned by bnt regarding Geddy Lee, i.e. his ability in other aspects. His keyboard skills, singing, composition, etc. This it could be said makes him an excellent [i]bassist[/i] but an extraordinary [i]musician[/i], although as we've said the one is the other and at this point the argument does an Oozelum Bird and goes round in circles before disappearing up its own arse. The point many people have made about Mark King is a good one, while he inspired thousands of players to pick up the bass in the 80s (myself and I think CK included), when you take a good look at his playing he's something of a one trick pony. HOWEVER... what a lot of people seem to forget is that he sings while he does it... have you ever tried singing a counter melody over the top of a complicated bassline? Exactly. Added to which, he is a drummer of no little ability and also plays guitar and keys -- exhibit A, his first solo album Influences -- and writes a bloody good tune. The vast majority of L42's back catalogue has the name 'King' as either the whole or part credit. So, overrated as a bassist perhaps, but as an all round musician? well I wish I could do all that lot. Sorry, I've drifted about a nautical mile from the OP here, but it's something that I've been thinking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 [quote name='Rich' post='188605' date='Apr 30 2008, 07:35 AM']The distinction between 'bassists' and 'musicians' is an interesting one. Whilst it is true really that the one is the other -- if you play bass, then you're playing music, ergo... -- there is also the aspect mentioned by bnt regarding Geddy Lee, i.e. his ability in other aspects. His keyboard skills, singing, composition, etc. This it could be said makes him an excellent [i]bassist[/i] but an extraordinary [i]musician[/i], although as we've said the one is the other and at this point the argument does an Oozelum Bird and goes round in circles before disappearing up its own arse. The point many people have made about Mark King is a good one, while he inspired thousands of players to pick up the bass in the 80s (myself and I think CK included), when you take a good look at his playing he's something of a one trick pony. HOWEVER... what a lot of people seem to forget is that he sings while he does it... have you ever tried singing a counter melody over the top of a complicated bassline? Exactly. Added to which, he is a drummer of no little ability and also plays guitar and keys -- exhibit A, his first solo album Influences -- and writes a bloody good tune. The vast majority of L42's back catalogue has the name 'King' as either the whole or part credit. So, overrated as a bassist perhaps, but as an all round musician? well I wish I could do all that lot. Sorry, I've drifted about a nautical mile from the OP here, but it's something that I've been thinking about. [/quote] That's all true Rich and makes a good point about bassists who play and sing.. It is definitely a real skill or art, and to play technically difficult parts like Mark King does and sing the lead vocal at the same time, that's pretty amazing! I thought the same of Geddy Lee when I saw Rush last year.. And even though I think Mr Level 42 is over-rated as a bassist, I don't for one second deny what an influence he has been to loads of bass players.. But as an 'under-rated' Basschat bassist, if I was to aspire to be as good at writing songs that I could then play & sing at the same time, I'd want to emulate Macca, Sting or Prince for example way, way before I ever thought of trying to emulate Mark King. And that's because their music and bass playing means more to me and inspires me more than Level 42 or Jaco etc, etc.. [quote name='mgauction' post='188589' date='Apr 30 2008, 03:59 AM']Count me in, Nik! Also - I hate Jaco -- same as Mark Level 42 whatever-the-hell-his name-is....too technical, no soul whatsoever - aliens. Nobody here could ever remember a tasty lick he ever played. Reminds me of the idiots at music stores that turn the volume high and play as fast as they can with nothing in mind except hay between their ears.[/quote] Cheers Mike - always knew we 'rats' were on the same wavelength! Does that make us Wal-Rats then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty589 Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 (edited) [quote name='silverfoxnik' post='188609' date='Apr 30 2008, 08:05 AM']That's all true Rich and makes a good point about bassists who play and sing.. It is definitely a real skill or art, and to play technically difficult parts like Mark King does and sing the lead vocal at the same time, that's pretty amazing! I thought the same of Geddy Lee when I saw Rush last year.. And even though I think Mr Level 42 is over-rated as a bassist, I don't for one second deny what an influence he has been to loads of bass players.. But as an 'under-rated' Basschat bassist, if I was to aspire to be as good at writing songs that I could then play & sing at the same time, I'd want to emulate Macca, Sting or Prince for example way, way before I ever thought of trying to emulate Mark King. And that's because their music and bass playing means more to me and inspires me more than Level 42 or Jaco etc, etc.. Cheers Mike - always knew we 'rats' were on the same wavelength! Does that make us Wal-Rats then? [/quote] How about renaming the forum basstwats - would be more suitable. Edited April 30, 2008 by matty589 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3V17C Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 [quote name='matty589' post='188796' date='Apr 30 2008, 01:43 PM']How about renaming the forum basstwats - would be more suitable.[/quote] you are a 'fully fledged member' though yourself!!!......... speaks volumes! c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 [quote name='dlloyd' post='188816' date='Apr 30 2008, 02:05 PM']You're not really cut out for this discussion forum business, are you?[/quote] Neither am I - I have no idea what he means by that. Did someone disagree with him about something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trent900 Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 [quote name='bremen' post='188958' date='Apr 30 2008, 04:23 PM']Neither am I - I have no idea what he means by that. Did someone disagree with him about something?[/quote] This thread's right to life, if I remember right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassassin Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 [quote name='bremen' post='188958' date='Apr 30 2008, 04:23 PM']Neither am I - I have no idea what he means by that. Did someone disagree with him about something?[/quote] Basically he seems to think we're just a bunch of talentless, amateurish wannabes, and this thread is us just whingeing in jealousy of million-selling bass-gods whose arses we are not fit to wipe. Guess we should all shut the f*ck up & know our place. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Ah well, it's all gone a bit weird, I was getting into peoples opinions on different players Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 look at indie bands i bet that the majority off bass players on this forum can play just as good and better than them, but yet they have a record deal, and we dont;. that sucks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 [quote name='BassManKev' post='189167' date='Apr 30 2008, 07:49 PM']look at indie bands i bet that the majority off bass players on this forum can play just as good and better than them, but yet they have a record deal, and we dont;. that sucks[/quote] It's not the be all and end all to have a record deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 it still means they have the money, and we don't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Depends who you're talking about, if it's just another Indie band with a small deal I doubt they earn mega bucks. Is there anyone on this forum who are signed I wonder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 that, is a very good question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Just wondering...did the word Indie come from Independent, as in the record label/companies??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenofthedepths Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 [quote name='Jase' post='189192' date='Apr 30 2008, 08:10 PM']Just wondering...did the word Indie come from Independent, as in the record label/companies???[/quote] It certainly came from there, before it came to be associated with a not-very-specific style of music - disgracefully lazy music journalism... as always Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 Cheers QoD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodneymullen Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 [quote name='BigBeefChief' post='187832' date='Apr 29 2008, 09:58 AM']Being called overated isn't always a criticism. I think most of the bass players mentionned on here would willingly agree that they are overated in some quaters. Calling Victor Wooten the best player of all time is overating him. It doesn't detract from the fact that he certainly knows his onions. Its more of a statement about his fans than his playing ability. If anything, I'd be happy to have fans that idolise me so much that they "overate" me. And as for the people moaning about these kind of threads - you're smart enough to switch on a PC and use the internet, but not smart enough to realise this is purely based on opinion? If you don't like it, why keep BUMPing it up with your pointless comments? And for what its worth: Mark King : Technically very clever, musically terrible Jaco : Just not my cup of tea Flea : Fleas.[/quote] Not worth much then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thylacine23 Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 [size="5"][/size] I am, the most underated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 [quote name='bremen' post='188958' date='Apr 30 2008, 04:23 PM']Neither am I - I have no idea what he means by that. Did someone disagree with him about something?[/quote] I think you'll find it all goes back to this: [quote name='matty589' post='186106' date='Apr 26 2008, 07:08 PM']Overrated by who? Without wishing to descend into an argument, does the wider world care what the posters on this thread think? Jaco, Jamerson, Mark King and the rest have made music that has entertained and been enjoyed by people all round the world. Have you?[/quote] To which I replied: [quote name='silverfoxnik' post='186122' date='Apr 26 2008, 07:38 PM']That's not the point, with respect.. The original post - by a member of Basschat, asked fellow Basschat members - who we thought were overrated. Therefore, it's a question about our opinions here, not about the achievements of the bassists in question out there in the 'wider world'.. So IMHO, it's just a harmless way to pass the time and definitely not a way to start arguements.. [/quote] A perfectly reasonable answer I feel.. But, I think that matty589's toys have been steadily thrown out of the pram ever since... He's quick to dish it out and tell us all what to do and how to do it and that we're all useless twats etc, etc, but actually when it comes down to it, he can't take someone disagreeing with him or having a different point of view at all. As dlloyd said: [quote name='dlloyd' post='188816' date='Apr 30 2008, 02:05 PM']You're not really cut out for this discussion forum business, are you?[/quote] I'm not normally a confrontational or rude person but every now and again, there's times when it's best to be blunt.. So, matty589, why don't you pick all your toys up, put them back in your pram and p*ss off! Just my opinion of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB1 Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 MB1. "What John Entwistle did for us!"........overated??????........Think Again! An amazing player, a great innovator,and a player with a real passion for the advancement of the Bass Guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kubickiboy Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 It's a great question to ask on a forum like this. Like, for instance, which is better - blue or red? Everyone has an opinion or a preference. And because of that, they're quite open and ready to put their views forward. Just a shame some people take things too personally, and view someone else's opinion that challenge's their own as an attack. Allow me this. Going back to a previous post, I don't think the term "Indie" off the back off "Independent" is bad journalism at all. It's in the musical language now, a genre, and recognised. Wouldn't you like to be the person who came up with the word "Punk"?. For the pot, mine is Billy Sheehan. And Fieldy. Both of them are always out of tune. But they do have their moments....! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgauction Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 [quote name='Kubickiboy' post='189413' date='Apr 30 2008, 07:29 PM']It's a great question to ask on a forum like this. Like, for instance, which is better - blue or red? Everyone has an opinion or a preference. And because of that, they're quite open and ready to put their views forward. Just a shame some people take things too personally, and view someone else's opinion that challenge's their own as an attack. Allow me this. Going back to a previous post, I don't think the term "Indie" off the back off "Independent" is bad journalism at all. It's in the musical language now, a genre, and recognised. Wouldn't you like to be the person who came up with the word "Punk"?. For the pot, mine is Billy Sheehan. And Fieldy. Both of them are always out of tune. But they do have their moments....![/quote] Well done! Good positive post, here! Gents take your cue from Kubickiboy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 [quote name='mgauction' post='189416' date='May 1 2008, 03:44 AM']Well done! Good positive post, here! Gents take your cue from Kubickiboy! [/quote] +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnylager Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 [quote name='Jase' post='188242' date='Apr 29 2008, 05:47 PM']Drummers too, a type of musician....[/quote] Heresey! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3V17C Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 [quote name='Kubickiboy' post='189413' date='May 1 2008, 02:29 AM']For the pot, mine is Billy Sheehan.[/quote] how dare you sir!!!!!!!!!!!!?! peace c Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.