Torben Hedstrøm Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I realize that we are quite a few 'foreigners' on this forum. However, still feel that not having english as your native language is no excuse, describing your items correctly in the classifieds... A few days ago I came across an ad here on BC, stating that the bass for sale is in 'mint' condition - with only a few dings and scratches. One BC'er correctly replied that if the bass is described as mint, it obviously has no dings and other 'issues'. I too have bought an instrument on this site described as having no issues, and only very few very small bumps on the back side. Upon arrival I straight away found, that there several noticeable dings on the headstock, and the truss rod Allen-key socket is close to being completely rounded off. Don't get me wrong... I am completely content with the instrument as such, but should I ever want to part with it I would not get nearly the same amount for it as I paid. Simply because I would feel obligaed to tell buyer about these things. Point being... Here on BC (as well as on Danish bass related discussion boards) we are all seemingly members of the same community, and judging by comments on the classifieds, we are all 'good friends'. So how do you handle a situation where you feel that seller has been documenting condition of an instrument poorly, (maybe unintentionally), and how can you explain to people, the actual definition of the term 'mint' ?. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 (edited) If I bought something I wasn't pleased with on here, I would politely take it up with the seller and see if some sort of compromise could be achieved... in my experience most people on here are pretty reasonable. In my view there is only one way to describe an item which is 'mint': unworn, undamaged, in perfect condition, as it would be if it were brand-new. 'Mint with a few dings and scratches' is NOT mint, IMHO. Edited July 22, 2012 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 For any item which is costing enough to make me concerned I'd be asking for a shed-load of pics. If they weren't forthcoming I'd walk away. Or (not very practical for yourself) but again - if the price warranted it I'd be collecting only - if it wasn't as described I'd be after a discount or as before; walk away. Only time I've done that was with my Hiwatt cab. It is knackered cosmetically, but I wasn't arguing for £250. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1342969013' post='1743242'] If I bought something I wasn't pleased with on here, I would politely take it up with the seller and see if some sort of compromise could be achieved... in my experience most people on here are pretty reasonable. [b]In my view there is only one definition of the term 'mint', which is: unworn, undamaged, in perfect condition, brand-new and factory-fresh. 'Mint' with a few dings and scratches is NOT mint, IMHO. Contradiction in terms[/b]. [/quote] Spot on. I saw an Ibanez sr600 in a music shop a few weeks ago described as in excellent condition. As it is the newest model which have only been out for 6 months or so I would have expected it to be without a mark. To me it was in bloody awful condition considering it's limited age, having quite a few marks on the body, and I didn't even look closely at it.. I thought the description took the piss. If that was excellent then my Sr300 would be pristine, neigh untouched. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1342969013' post='1743242'] In my view there is only one way to describe an item which is 'mint': unworn, undamaged, in perfect condition, as it would be if it were brand-new and factory-fresh. 'Mint' with a few dings and scratches is NOT mint, IMHO. [/quote] That would be my understanding of "mint condition" too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torben Hedstrøm Posted July 22, 2012 Author Share Posted July 22, 2012 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1342969013' post='1743242'] If I bought something I wasn't pleased with on here, I would politely take it up with the seller and see if some sort of compromise could be achieved... in my experience most people on here are pretty reasonable. In my view there is only one definition of the term 'mint', which is: unworn, undamaged, in perfect condition, brand-new and factory-fresh. 'Mint' with a few dings and scratches is NOT mint, IMHO. Contradiction in terms. [/quote] Oh, but I did tell seller that the item was not quite as described, and that in my most friendly tone. In equally friendly terms I was told that he obviously missed the dings on the headstock, and that I probably used the wrong Allen key for the truss rod. I considered focussing the discussion on some sort of compensation, but as you really can't do sh*** about it, and seller is +600 km's away I pretty much left it there, and got on with my life. As stated, I really really enjoy the bass for it's sound and playability... So... That will have to do. On bit of a sidenote... Anyone actually read a bad remark on the feedback section about anyone ?. Thought about doing som myself after this deal, and I probably will in near future. Just seems that it's not something people do very often... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torben Hedstrøm Posted July 22, 2012 Author Share Posted July 22, 2012 At €1700 you would expect a certain degree of 'seriousity' from seller. Ofcourse I saw pictures, but honestly I reasoned that if one owns a €1700 hand built instrument, one does care/know what it looks like. And certainly what state the truss rod is in. [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1342969098' post='1743245'] For any item which is costing enough to make me concerned I'd be asking for a shed-load of pics. If they weren't forthcoming I'd walk away. Or (not very practical for yourself) but again - if the price warranted it I'd be collecting only - if it wasn't as described I'd be after a discount or as before; walk away. Only time I've done that was with my Hiwatt cab. It is knackered cosmetically, but I wasn't arguing for £250. [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torben Hedstrøm Posted July 22, 2012 Author Share Posted July 22, 2012 And just for the record... this thread was not started so I can bitch about the deal I made (almost 3 months ago). But seing the ad the other day just reminded me to bring up the discussion about 'state of items'' . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigjohn Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 If I'd have bought a bass on here for [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] €1700 and it wasn't as described, then the seller gave my concerns about that short shrift... I'd have no qualms whatsoever about leaving a dirty great **** in their feedback thread. [/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]In fact I'd feel a little obligated to! [/font][/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 [quote name='Torben Hedstrøm' timestamp='1342969979' post='1743256'] At €1700 you would expect a certain degree of 'seriousity' from seller. Ofcourse I saw pictures, but honestly I reasoned that if one owns a €1700 hand built instrument, one does care/know what it looks like. And certainly what state the truss rod is in. [/quote] Sounds reasonable, and as the original owner of a hand-built bass I know exactly what you mean. As was said recently, you could try the Mods, it has worked in the past - and if all else fails do use the Feedback pages, it's what they're for - and you'd be doing other BCers a big favour. FWIW, obviously I agree with the posts about what constitutes "mint" - and at 3 months after the event I wouldn't say it was time to quit yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 [quote name='Torben Hedstrøm' timestamp='1342969979' post='1743256'] At €1700 you would expect a certain degree of 'seriousity' from seller. Ofcourse I saw pictures, but honestly I reasoned that if one owns a €1700 hand built instrument, one does care/know what it looks like. And certainly what state the truss rod is in. [/quote] I have, over time learned that we seem to have varying degrees of condition in mind when using the word "mint" or othe such superlatives (oftentimes spelling, punctuation and grammar in a For Sale thread are a good indication of where on the scale this might be... perhaps not as useful a tip for non-English speaking buyers) but an instrument at this price level described as mint should without doubt be in show-room condition.... perhaps better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 (edited) What if it's a Fender road worn Jazz Bass? I did once see a road worn Jazz for sale, described as mint, on this very forum. Edited July 22, 2012 by gjones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 [quote name='Torben Hedstrøm' timestamp='1342969815' post='1743254'] On bit of a sidenote... Anyone actually read a bad remark on the feedback section about anyone ?. Thought about doing som myself after this deal, and I probably will in near future. Just seems that it's not something people do very often... [/quote] I've seen bad feedback left for somebody I have dealt with on here. (I didn't have any problem with the person BTW). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Add the word imaculate into the debate... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 [quote name='EBS_freak' timestamp='1342992407' post='1743650'] Add the word immaculate into the debate...[/quote] Interesting concept... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbayne Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I would be very suspicious of buying anything from someone who has just registered as a member, without even an introduction. All the things I have bought on here have been from established members who have built up a reputation. Just my 2 cents worth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 Caveat Emptor, as they say! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 In the comics world they stopped using the word mint quite some time ago, as simply adding staples would introduce stress marks in the paper! Instead they used a detailed grading which went up to 99. There's still a certain amount of subjectivity involved and it doesn't stop anyone being 'generous' with their assessment, but I'm sure I've seen a similar kind of rating for guitars in the past. Doesn't seem to have caught on though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 It's either mint or it's not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 I would say the definition is showroom condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waynepunkdude Posted July 22, 2012 Share Posted July 22, 2012 This is mint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Nah, that's surf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Alsatian Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 [quote name='gjones' timestamp='1342996926' post='1743736'] I would say the definition is showroom condition. [/quote] Covered in fingerprints, light scratches and poorly set up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Sadly there is no agreed standard for descriptive classification. Some retailers / gurus use 'mint' to mean 'top quality'. Others use 'as new' for top-notch and drop 'mint' down a grading to allow for very minor cosmetic blemishes. Here's US retailer Elderly Instruments' grading table - it seems to fit with the thread consensus: [quote]MC: Mint Condition : when we say mint, we mean mint. No wear, like new out of the box. EC: Excellent Condition : Very clean, might have some minor wear, dings, scratches, or finish cracks, but otherwise very close to new condition. VGC: Very Good Condition : Basically clean, might have some deeper scratches, pick wear or missing finish. Nothing real serious, no cracks, unless otherwise stated. GC: Good Condition : Solid playing condition, may have one or more repaired cracks or other cosmetic flaws. FC: Fair Condition and PC = Poor Condition : Indicate that the instrument may have some problems, usually described. [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Might I suggest that Bass Chat adds a similar "grading table" to the classifieds forum rules? Might help sellers to clarify things a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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