Fat Rich Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 I recently got a '72 Jazz which appears to be largely original, 3TS, 4 bolts, rosewood board, white binding and MOP blocks. The neck stamp 7APR 72, body stamp has same persons name as neck stamp, neck plate 367### and faint Fender F, pot dates 72, pickups and soldering look OK. But I have my suspicions about the bridge. It's the right size and shape, but the chromed plate it's made from doesn't have the usual slight surface lumpiness. In other words, if I shined it up it would have a perfect mirror finish, every other 70s Fender bridge I've seen would have a non reflective dullness due to the slightly uneven / pitted surface. Also it has the threaded saddles you see on 60s Fenders, I assumed by 72 they were using the plain saddles with the single groove for the string to sit in. The threaded saddles look plenty old enough and dull grey, not like the shiny chrome ones you see on reissues. Finally, the bridge is mounted further back on the body than any other Jazz I've seen, so much so that I can't quite get the intonation in on the G and D strings without the saddles falling off the end of the adjusting screws. I took the bridge off half expecting to find another row of holes a bit nearer the neck but it seems to have left the factory like that, and there's no evidence in the finish of it ever having had any other bridge on it, or the bridge ever being moved. So... could the bridge be original? It certainly looks pretty old and I know Fender did all sorts of crazy things in the 70s (the bridge pickup rout is particularly comical although the neck joint is a good 'un). It's great playing and sounding bass, nice and light and it resonates like a good pre-CBS. Can any Fender experts shed any light? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) The spiral-saddle bridge was used until 1969. 1969-1973 basses should have the single groove barrel saddles with the longer 'G' intonation screw... I think. Like this: Edited July 25, 2012 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Yep, that`s what my trusty Fender Bass book states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q_of_doom Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 With regards to your bridge pick-up positioning, The pickup used to be visible from underneath the chrome bridge cover, so Fender decided to simply move it closer to the bridge (1972 - 197X ). This move was responsible for giving the 70's Fender their sought after, punchier sound. Not too sure about your bridge though. Pics? THe ones shown above are the period-correct ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bass Doc Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 (edited) Yes I would say the bridge will be non-original. As it happens I've got a set of 70s saddles in good nick but don't have the elongated G-string length adjustment screw and the plate they came with is rather rusty. Most early 70s Jazzes I've worked on seem to be capable of achieving correct intonation without the saddle falling off the end of a normal length screw. Judging by the picture above I would say that the G saddle shown seems to be where I would expect it to be in which case there's still a little thread to go albeit not a very stable-looking scenario. I would certainly be amazed if you can't get the D in tune without it falling off. As far as the position in relation to the bridge cover is concerned my experience is that both pickup and bridge moved back and the cover looks the same in both periods i.e. the same degree of cover for the pickup and not the reason Fender moved it. Without carrying a bridge pickup Precisions also exhibit the elongated G-string saddle screw and my theory is that it was in response to users finding that the portion of string carrying coloured thread intruded over the saddle so the bridge was stepped back - and in the case of the Jazz the pickup went with it. Having owned and analysed loads of 60s and 70s Jazz basses I can safely say that the big 'F' cover shows no more or less of the bridge pickup in either period. Edited July 25, 2012 by The Bass Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q_of_doom Posted July 25, 2012 Share Posted July 25, 2012 Hmmm. And I finally thought the mystery surrounding the bridge pickup positioning has been solved by this [url="http://www.fendercustomshop.com/index.php/gallery/instruments/"]video[/url] (click on 1961 Closet Classic Jazz Bass). Interesting Theory, Bass doc. Would that be the same type of coloured thread still found on Rotosounds? What's purpose does the thread serve? Many manufacturers don't use it at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Rich Posted July 25, 2012 Author Share Posted July 25, 2012 Many thanks for the replies, I'll take some pictures tomorrow when there's some light. Meantime, all 4 intonation screws are the same length, the longer G screw would probably fix the problem (all the same length on my 74 and 78 Jazzes too) The less reflective finish to the plate in discreet's pic is what I was expecting, mine is definitely smoother. The bridge pickup is in the correct 70s position measured from the end of the neck, it's just the bridge itself that's approx 10mm further back than my 74 and 78. Will take some pics with a ruler. I'll dig out the ashtrays and see how visible the pickup is, and take some pics of that too. As for intonation, the bass came with slightly lighter strings than I would like, I'm hoping heavier stings will bring the G and D strings back into tune. Having said that, as a groove player I rarely venture up the neck high enough to cause a problem Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Rich Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) Some pics, the bridge: With the cover on, taken face on: All lined up: Some pics with a ruler, note the dimensions as read aren't correct as the ruler is laid end on to the neck, add approx 13mm before scale starts. Dims taken from centre of neck to backplate of bridge. The 72 (bridge indicated 285mm): The 74 (bridge indicated 276mm): The 78 (bridge indicated 274mm): Edited July 26, 2012 by Fat Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bass Doc Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) It's pretty obvious from the 3 in line that the bridge is further back on the 72 than the others and yet the pickup remains in the so-called 70s position. Methinks by 74 Fender realised the bridge should not have moved so far back after all and returned to a position whereby the extra long G-string length screw was not needed. I notice there's a choice of holes for the 'F' chrome cover to be fitted - a sign of perhaps a Badass being on the bass in it's previous life. Edited July 26, 2012 by The Bass Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Rich Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 [quote name='The Bass Doc' timestamp='1343293818' post='1748327'] It's pretty obvious from the 3 in line that the bridge is further back on the 72 than the others and yet the pickup remains in the so-called 70s position. Methinks by 74 Fender realised the bridge should not have moved so far back after all and returned to a position whereby the extra long G-string length screw was not needed. I notice there's a choice of holes for the 'F' chrome cover to be fitted - a sign of perhaps a Badass being on the bass in it's previous life. [/quote] I think you're right, Andy Baxter has a very nice 73 and the bridge is a long way back on that one too.... and has the longer intonation screw on the G to compensate. There's no evidence of a Badass being on it, they usually leave some trace in the finish either as a dent or different amounts of fading / dirt because they're a bit longer than a BBOT. However I can't see any other reason why anyone would take a BBOT and replace it with another BBOT, unless it had a Badass for a while and the original couldn't be found when the Badass was removed. Odd as they kept the ashtray and thumb rest and all the screws. Ah well, I'll keep an eye out for a longer intonation screw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 [quote name='Fat Rich' timestamp='1343295211' post='1748358'] Ah well, I'll keep an eye out for a longer intonation screw.[/quote] [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/124025-looking-for-fender-bridge-intonation-screw/page__view__findpost__p__1134751"]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/124025-looking-for-fender-bridge-intonation-screw/page__view__findpost__p__1134751[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 I read all through this thread and found it very interesting. I really, really do need to get out more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 [quote name='gjones' timestamp='1343300022' post='1748457'] I read all through this thread and found it very interesting. I really, really do need to get out more.[/quote] I know. And it's such a beautiful day, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Rich Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1343298743' post='1748423'] [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/124025-looking-for-fender-bridge-intonation-screw/page__view__findpost__p__1134751"]http://basschat.co.u...ost__p__1134751[/url] [/quote] Many thanks, that should solve it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Fat Rich' timestamp='1343300729' post='1748474'] Many thanks, that should solve it![/quote] Yooouuuuurrrrrr'eee welcome, and have a nice day! Edit: You could try sending a PM to ikay - he may even still have some. Edited July 26, 2012 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bass Doc Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Oh dear........I've just had to explain to Mrs. BD that I've been on Basschat discussing G-strings and longer screws ........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 [quote name='The Bass Doc' timestamp='1343302366' post='1748513'] Oh dear... I've just had to explain to Mrs BD that I've been on Basschat discussing G-strings and longer screws...[/quote] And we haven't even started on fingering, yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Rich Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 [quote name='The Bass Doc' timestamp='1343302366' post='1748513'] Oh dear........I've just had to explain to Mrs. BD that I've been on Basschat discussing G-strings and longer screws ........... [/quote] And looking at pictures of saddle grooves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 And thinking about the possibility of slapping. Shall we stop, now..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 [quote name='Fat Rich' timestamp='1343303986' post='1748550'] And looking at pictures of saddle grooves. [/quote] That's the filthiest thing I've read on BC yet... and I was censored last night for fruity language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bass Doc Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 I do a fair bit of palm dampening Sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 I do it standing up with a strap on. And so on, and so forth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
q_of_doom Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 One leaves you lot alone for day or two and look at what happens! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Rich Posted July 27, 2012 Author Share Posted July 27, 2012 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1343301603' post='1748494'] Yooouuuuurrrrrr'eee welcome, and have a nice day! Edit: You could try sending a PM to ikay - he may even still have some. [/quote] ikay has put some in the post for me, what a gent! Thanks again to everyone for their help on this, I'd still be fumbling around on ebay trying to track these things down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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