Do you ALWAYS change with the drummer?

[stefBclef]

Happy Friday everybody!

Ok, feel free to make jokes about the title, but only if they're good ones!

So, musically speaking, do you always change when the drummer changes (and vice-versa)?

Scenario is:

You are creating / jamming an original song (i.e. there's no original to copy) in a band setting and the dynamics and structure are still to be settled on. So at some points you are pondering things like: "Do I play softly here? Do I use a reggae line here? Do I slap here? The drummer and guitarist have gone back to reggae style, should I neccesarily change too?"

I know there are gonna be exceptions (this is the arts we're talking about!), but do you [i]generally [/i]find:

[b]Things always sound better when me and the drummer change with each other...if the drummer changes style / pattern I am gonna change too. [/b]

[b]OR[/b]

[b]I find that sometimes, even though the drummer has changed his/her pattern things can sound better if I stay on the same groove.[/b]

Any advice you have on creating dynamics in a new song, I would love to hear. I'm not even sure if 'dynamics' is the word I should be using, but im talking about when you take a song with a basic structure that you have written and then start to play around with various factors (volume / style of play etc) to turn it from a boring train ride of a song into a full blown rollercoaster from start to finish!

I hope that has made it clearer...although i'm fully aware that it might not have!

Cheers dudes and dudettes
Stef

[FelixGubbins]

That's a good question. Been a while since I've done this sort of thing "in anger", in fact way too long, but i think it will depend a bit on the type of music you play. For straight up rock, say, you might be inclined to stick with the drummer, for jazz your rythmn might come together with the other band members at some point during the song ;-) So the norm would be the first option, with the second option more as and when the song requires it. But hey, I'm out of practice, as I said.

*Stands back ready to be shot down in flames!!*

Cheers,

Russ

[BottomE]

Lots of variables to this question. If you had said "Get changed with the drummer" the answer would be a "no" for sure.

In a jam its a bit of a free for all so the answer would be sometimes yes and sometimes no. If the Keys, for example, are playing some solo stuff i would have an ear on that and try to support some of the ideas coming from the keyboard. This could be changing in timing and i might follow the keys player for a bit - maybe the drummer will follow?

Keep jamming its good for you.

[keeptrying]

Personally I think it all depends on what feels right and the emotion you want the song to convey.
You wouldn't use the same feel/ dynamic for a song that says I hate you, as you would for one that says I love you.
+1 with the keep jamming.

[stingrayPete1977]

The most obvious example I can think of is how great it can sound when the bass is thundering away fast and heavy but the drummer drops into half time or even starts with some awkwardly timed cymbal hits/rolls etc, so no not [u]always[/u]

[essexbasscat]

It's art, it's free, you make it what you wish. For every person that says "do it this way", there will be someone else saying "Why do the same as everyone else" ?

Have a listen to Dave Brubeck's Take Five

Then have a go at Heavy Weather by Weather Report

Take your pick !

[flyfisher]

[quote name='essexbasscat' timestamp='1343413285' post='1750483']
It's art, it's free, you make it what you wish. For every person that says "do it this way", there will be someone else saying "Why do the same as everyone else" ?
[/quote]

Agreed. Do whatever you like - if you like the results then it's good. Just don't expect everyone else in the world to like it.

[stefBclef]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1343415911' post='1750507']
Agreed. Do whatever you like - if you like the results then it's good. Just don't expect everyone else in the world to like it.
[/quote]

Yep, I expected these kind of answers. And I will certainly keep on jamming. I know there is no magic answer and every rule can be broken and all that, but it's good to know methods/rules previous people have used to construct "good" music.

I will go have a jam then! Thanks for all your responses....

[Twigman]

Do I ALWAYS change with the drummer?

No - we have separate dressing rooms.

[stefBclef]

[quote name='Twigman' timestamp='1343417113' post='1750537']
Do I ALWAYS change with the drummer?

No - we have separate dressing rooms.
[/quote]

Ok, I did say at the start that the jokes should be good ones....and now I will create a new ruke: NO REPEAT JOKES!!! (see Bottom E's joke opener earlier).

Well maybe there is just the one joke available anyway so i'll let you off!

[Donnyboy]

[i]no , not always, i like it when i play straight and he does some off-beat stuff , hits cymbles (?), double-times the bass drum ..... but then that's usually when he's getting cramp & needs some salted crisps [/i]

[Twigman]

My drummer is the Incredible Hulk - imagine if we both.....oh never mind

[Twigman]

Serious answer to the Q - NO not always

Often it can work well

[Mog]

IMO its a good idea to lock in with the drummer for 90% of the song, verse, chorus etc. A bit of ad lib never harmed anyone though and doing something different during a bridge section or maybe a bit of harmonizing when a vocal line changes dramatically can really add to a song.

Trust your ear and your foot. If it sounds good and your foot is tapping along you are doing something right.

[TimR]

Do whatever you want as long as you are both listening to each other and he knows that you're not necessarily going to follow him and vice-versa.

Nothing worse than changing and glaring at the drummer because he's thinking too much about his next beer.

[JTUK]

This would apply more with a formal tune..... But the drums have it, I'll go with them.... If I've got it he will have to change to me but we don't want to chopping and changing to find ' it '

[Delberthot]

I've been playing in different bands with my drummer for about 18 years so we almost know what each other is going to play before we play it. Regardless of the timing, it always works.

If you want one of my favourite examples of where the bass and drums are doing completely different things then listen to Siberian Khatru byYes

[Marvin]

I ignore our drummer, he's sh*t

[Dad3353]

A couple of examples might help...

Meï Teï Shô, a French band, have an excellent interplay between bass and drums. I think they have stuff posted here...

[url="http://www.meiteisho.net/"]http://www.meiteisho.net/[/url]

...and then there's F. Zappa, who would use a bass track from one concert over drums from another, different time sigs an' all. It certainly worked for him. Play [i]with[/i] the drummer, not [i]like[/i] the drummer.
If you're listening to what is going on and [i]playing[/i] to it, that's called 'music'. Recommended.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1343436917' post='1750966']
If you're listening to what is going on and [i]playing[/i] to it, that's called 'music'. Recommended.
[/quote]

This.

Don't just listen to the drummer, as then you're only getting part of the picture. Listen to what all the instruments are doing especially the vocals because that's what the audience are listening to.

[SpaceChick]

There are two tracks we do we were we not "in sync" because it sounds better.

One is a track where I play on the beat and he plays off beat, so it's like a tennis volley between us which sounds pretty cool.

The other is a track that starts slow..... I do gentle root notes at the start of each bar, whilst he does a gentle rhythm on the cymbals.... Then we come back together loudly and forcefully when the track picks up the pace and movement.

I love music I do, and love the bass/drums dynamic..... And even though my drummer is 62 to my 38, he can't half whack his kit (no pun intended you smutty people!)

[4 Strings]

+1 fo the listening bit, and it should be all listening to all hat the drummer/guitarist etc can change with you if you want to lead in a direction. Very difficult to achieve.

[gub]

Our drummer had a sex change but I gave that one a miss ! ( wind whistles )
Sorry ! On a serious note I tend to most of the time but do on occasion try to play around when it feels right , I suppose your instinct tells you .

[Lord Sausage]

No, the drummer changes with me!

[SteveK]

[quote name='stefBclef' timestamp='1343410436' post='1750431']
I know there are gonna be exceptions (this is the arts we're talking about!), but do you [i]generally [/i]find:

[b]Things always sound better when me and the drummer change with each other...if the drummer changes style / pattern I am gonna change too. [/b]

[/quote]Absolutely YES...& NO!

[quote name='stefBclef' timestamp='1343410436' post='1750431']
[b]OR[/b]

[b]I find that sometimes, even though the drummer has changed his/her pattern things can sound better if I stay on the same groove.[/b]

[/quote]Again, the answer is, absolutely YES... & NO!

You seem to be asking if there is an unwritten rule in this regard...there is none. Yours ears and your band-mates should tell you what works and what doesn't.