mcnach Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) Our next Sea Bass Kid gig is going to be one of the best ever, I am sure. So if you are in Edinburgh... make sure you come along! This is an originals band. Our style is... hard to describe. We seem to get invited to ska festivals... despite the fact that we only have a couple of songs with a ska section, and maybe another with a slight reggaeish hue... We play a bit of funk/reggae/ska/pop/blues/rock fused with techno-polka, when we feel like it Anyway, it's a band playing energetic upbeat rhythms and people seem to dance a lot to it. The thing is that we rarely get slots beyond 45min, when playing original material. We recently changed drummer (3 months ago) so we focused on getting enough material for 1h down, and very slowly we work on new stuff and help the drummer get up to speed with the older stuff. Slowly. Now, 2 weeks ago we were asked whether we could play a 2x45' minute slot on Friday night, a couple of days later. I said "of course!". It was one of our best gigs ever. We added a cover ("Bad Boys", it's always fun, and not exactly a cover, it's more a jam based on that song), and various short jams based around "work in progress", as well as a couple of older songs that the drummer managed to memorise. Oh, and we repeated the second song of our first set near the end of the second set It went down really well, and we were very nearly mobbed to continue playing. We had already unplugged, sound guy was playing music over the speakers... but a large enough group yelled for more... so we obliged and played yet another song We were happy it worked, and decided we needed to switch gears and get another hour's worth of material ready to be sure in the future. So one rehearsal later... we get asked whether we can do a 3x45' slot. I said 'of course, no problem!' Now that we start getting longer slots without even having to look for them, playing originals, I am reluctant to say no! So now we are looking at eachother with a huge grin thinking "this is going to be interesting!" We managed to rescue 3 more of our older songs, plus a cover we used to do (Reel Big Fish's "Beer"), and we have yet more "work-in-progress" jams. We will have to write the setlist strategically, to make it flow nicely, but it's doable. We are a band that jams a lot. When I joined, one of the guitarists broke strings often, and I hated being there in silence, so whenever there is a "technical issue" I start playing and get the drummer to play with me, and then whoever else wants to join is welcome... we do this often, at rehearsals, live... so it comes naturally and people often tell us that they like seeing us because it shows that we are having fun when we play. Six people on stage, with a trumpet player that is an expert in silly dances... yeah, we have fun. And we noticed that people seem to respond to a band having fun, even if they are playing songs that are unknown to the audience, and even if they are instrumental jams. Last time, one such jam was meant to be a very short thing, a couple of minutes or so... turned into maybe 6 minutes, as there was a crazy man doing some amazing dance moves and he got other to join him... so we could not break their mood, could we? Very convenient for us too Have you been in situations where you need to come up with an extra 40min of material on the spot or something? What do you do? You play very slowly? Talk a lot between songs? Play the same song twice with different vocal lines? Edited August 1, 2012 by mcnach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurbs Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Well done on the longer gigs... sounds like you have some fans! I wouldn't worry about playing songs for longer than the usual 3-4 minutes to tend to find most bands stick to. As long as you have musicians that can improvise well (and I don't just mean a guitarist going up and down pentatonics) then there is no reason why one song couldn't be a whole set, or more realistically 6+ minutes as you say. I don't know if you play much Jazz? You could look at how some Jazz songs are structured... play the song through, take it in turns to improvise (sometimes the whole song, sometimes just a section) have a go around again improvising if you want to and then when everyone is done, play the song again and end. You can easily turn a 3 minute song in to 10 minutes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 interpretive dance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted July 29, 2012 Author Share Posted July 29, 2012 [quote name='Thurbs' timestamp='1343545771' post='1751823'] Well done on the longer gigs... sounds like you have some fans! I wouldn't worry about playing songs for longer than the usual 3-4 minutes to tend to find most bands stick to. As long as you have musicians that can improvise well (and I don't just mean a guitarist going up and down pentatonics) then there is no reason why one song couldn't be a whole set, or more realistically 6+ minutes as you say. I don't know if you play much Jazz? You could look at how some Jazz songs are structured... play the song through, take it in turns to improvise (sometimes the whole song, sometimes just a section) have a go around again improvising if you want to and then when everyone is done, play the song again and end. You can easily turn a 3 minute song in to 10 minutes... [/quote] Not playing jazz at all, no. But we sometimes do that "go in turns" thing, and we may use it to introduce the members of the band sometimes. Not talking about solos, but more who is going to lead the improvisations, who is going to lead the changes and the rest follow. For some reason, I am normally the leader in these things, 'though, so it's easy for me... although I have to make sure the changes make sense and that I come up with interesting variations. I played with the same drummer in another band for a couple of years, and that helps a lot as we have a "shared vocabulary", and I find that if bass and drums go well together, then the rest seems to fall in place easily. The only problem is that the sound onstage is not always good enough, so we often need to keep it simple live, as some band members may not be able to hear well what's going on. Hopefully one day we will have our own sound screw and we will be able to hear eachother well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 maybe throw in a couple more covers to do alternate originals/covers through the second set ? you could choose covers that would sit well next to your own material and also ones that are easy enough that they would be very quick to learn and get up to speed ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 I think whether you are capable and whether it's appropriate (two wholly different things) for you to extend songs to fill an allotted time is down to the band and the musicians in it. IMO the worst thing to do is to talk lots in between songs, especially if your audience wants to be dancing, every none musical moment destroys the feel of the set. TBH it sounds like you have pretty much worked out the best way to fill the time. Personally I think with 3 x 45 minutes of mostly originals you could probably get away with repeating some of the songs from the first 2 sets in the last one and few members of the audience would notice. A lot of it will also be down to the material if you can jam it out. It certainly wouldn't work for my band who play tightly crafted songs with an average speed of 145bpm and an average length of under 3 minutes. For us even doubling all the instrumental sections we'd be pushed to add more than 15 seconds to the song! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelk27 Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Well, I'd be careful about mixing in early originals that weren't already in your setlist - there's probably a good reason why early material was left on the shelf. But it's certainly worth taking a second look at early material to see how it can be improved, and brought up to standard. Extending some of the stronger songs currently in your setlist is a good idea - but not every song in your setlist! Look at arranging the songs with an extended break section and a few chorus repeats. Similarly, look at the song in your set where you can do an "introducing the band" section - where you can all take a turn in the limelight. I'd certainly avoid the more freeform, improvisation/jam approach. Finding the right cover versions is also a good idea - if you're particularly fortunate you'll identify some obscure songs that you can look at taking and reworking to give these a new identity in line with your bands, and play these alongside the instantly familiar covers. But, as an originals band, looks like you need to find the time to write some new material. Not your style, perhaps, but take a look at Crowded House. Those guys know how to involve an audience in a gig - extending songs, audience participation, story telling, and covers. Was at a CH gig where the guys played for over two-and-a-half hours before doing half an hour worth of encore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) We had this problem last night at a pub gig. The singer booked the gig, then we found out last week that they wanted 3x 45minute sets. We have just enough material for maybe 2 sets. Fortunately, as it was a pub rather than a ticketed gig, there was enough turnover of punters that by the third set, the barman was the only person in the room who'd heard the first set. The landlord seemed happy enough and actually paid us slightly more that we'd agreed (always welcome!). We had a big group of Norwegian army lads (in town for the Tattoo) dancing to the second set, so he was probably pleased with the takings. We might start doing a select few covers to bulk out our pub gig set in future though. Edited July 29, 2012 by Beer of the Bass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 [quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1343559499' post='1752005'] We had this problem last night at a pub gig. The singer booked the gig, then we found out last week that they wanted 3x 45minute sets. We have just enough material for maybe 2 sets. Fortunately, as it was a pub rather than a ticketed gig, there was enough turnover of punters that by the third set, the barman was the only person in the room who'd heard the first set. The landlord seemed happy enough and actually paid us slightly more that we'd agreed (always welcome!). We had a big group of Norwegian army lads (in town for the Tattoo) dancing to the second set, so he was probably pleased with the takings. We might start doing a select few covers to bulk out our pub gig set in future though. [/quote] and that pub's name starts with a W? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 [quote name='noelk27' timestamp='1343559253' post='1752001'] Well, I'd be careful about mixing in early originals that weren't already in your setlist - there's probably a good reason why early material was left on the shelf. But it's certainly worth taking a second look at early material to see how it can be improved, and brought up to standard. Extending some of the stronger songs currently in your setlist is a good idea - but not every song in your setlist! Look at arranging the songs with an extended break section and a few chorus repeats. Similarly, look at the song in your set where you can do an "introducing the band" section - where you can all take a turn in the limelight. I'd certainly avoid the more freeform, improvisation/jam approach. Finding the right cover versions is also a good idea - if you're particularly fortunate you'll identify some obscure songs that you can look at taking and reworking to give these a new identity in line with your bands, and play these alongside the instantly familiar covers. But, as an originals band, looks like you need to find the time to write some new material. Not your style, perhaps, but take a look at Crowded House. Those guys know how to involve an audience in a gig - extending songs, audience participation, story telling, and covers. Was at a CH gig where the guys played for over two-and-a-half hours before doing half an hour worth of encore. [/quote] Good suggestions, thanks. The old material that was left behind was not necessarily "worse", but you know how it is: the new songs always seem more exciting than the ones you've played for years. In our case that was coupled with having been recording a 10 track CD... we had a couple of demos with 4-5 tracks each, and we did not want to re-record them all, so only a couple of the old ones made it into the new recording. When the new drummer joined, we asked him to learn the new CD... and it sort of stayed there. In addition, we got a sixth member now, after being a 5-piece forever: a trumpet player. So, again, the newer tracks were adapted for trumpet... and as a result, our whole style has evolved a bit, so the older things are different. But trumpet player is happy to get a break every now and then, he says We're revamping "the rest of the best" so that we can play them with trumpet. It makes a big difference to our sound. I think that's why they put us with ska bands so often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 We used to play a beer festival. Would start about 5 pm & finish about midnight with a couple of breaks. We have about 40 original songs & a good amount of covers to hand & like your band, take a song & jam it. Singer is a great front man too. What we would do for the last hour or so is invite some of the audience to join us, whether that be a couple of girls to come up & sing, someone to pick up a guitar or just someone to play tambourine. It gets the audience more involved. We took a buskers songbook (one of those large paged things with chords & lyrics) & we'd ask the audience member to choose something from it that they know & we would improvise from it. Then to finish the evening off, play 2-3 good dancing tunes (often something from the very start of the gig). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Hmm... I'm always a bit dubious about promoters who ask for more; and more; [i]and more[/i]... In some ways, you have a set - and that's crafted to give the best performance. Tinkering with it doesn't always produce the results you want. However, it sounds like you've got it sorted. Where we have had to extend the set we've done much the same - picked a choice cover or two, and put some effort into a combination of revamping older material or finishing those songs "nearly there". I wouldn't consider adding any more banter or gaps into the proceedings. Could go very wrong. I'd rather repeat a song than add in a couple of minutes of padding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 If you're playing originals, you can usually get away with just repeating songs you played earlier. Punters will notice if you play [i]Alright Now [/i]or [i]Sex On Fire [/i]twice, but most won't notice if you repeat an unfamiliar song. On a 3-set gig, I agree that just repeating Set #1 entire is the easiest solution. There won't be many in the pub for Set #3 who were already there for Set #1, and any who were should be well-pissed by then ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 [quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1343726114' post='1754090'] Hmm... I'm always a bit dubious about promoters who ask for more; and more; [i]and more[/i]... In some ways, you have a set - and that's crafted to give the best performance. Tinkering with it doesn't always produce the results you want. However, it sounds like you've got it sorted. Where we have had to extend the set we've done much the same - picked a choice cover or two, and put some effort into a combination of revamping older material or finishing those songs "nearly there". I wouldn't consider adding any more banter or gaps into the proceedings. Could go very wrong. I'd rather repeat a song than add in a couple of minutes of padding. [/quote] absolutely re: gaps and chat between songs. I hate that. as for the asking more and more... I am for one glad to be in this situation. It's pretty hard to play originals and being asked to play longer than 45minutes. Covers? sure, all you want. With the covers bands I have been in, no problem, and we even get decent fees. BUt the minute you say originals, you are worth nearly nothing... at least until you show you have a LOT of fans. So because of that, we had tons of songs, but never really had more than an hour's worth "ready", and with changing drummers twice in teh past 18 months, it meant that while most of us knew many songs, we could only really play a fraction of them. I see this as a good push to get us to perfect our repertoire. In addition, if this particular venue realises that despite being originals, we can entertain people for 2h and the bar is busy... that would be great. We just want to play and get people dancing and having a good time... and hopefully have a few of them thinking later at home "Sea Bass Kid, eh? they were awesome, I must go see them again and tell my mates about them". The CD is finally recorded, so hopefully we'll be able to distribute a few during these gigs. Remember it's festival period here in Edinburgh. It's going to be really busy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Yeah, horses for courses, chief - wasn't a dig. Just my observation that, probably, the few times we've gone from "Hey, I've got 20 mins - can you do me a favour?" to "Yeah, you guys have 45 mins tonight, enjoy!" have probably been at the hands of people with problems of their own 3 x 45 sounds like a wedding gig; and I'd want those rates, for the effort. For everything else, here's 30 minutes and now I want to go and have a beer with my mates and watch the next band Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 [quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1343738936' post='1754379'] Yeah, horses for courses, chief - wasn't a dig. Just my observation that, probably, the few times we've gone from "Hey, I've got 20 mins - can you do me a favour?" to "Yeah, you guys have 45 mins tonight, enjoy!" have probably been at the hands of people with problems of their own 3 x 45 sounds like a wedding gig; and I'd want those rates, for the effort. For everything else, here's 30 minutes and now I want to go and have a beer with my mates and watch the next band [/quote] I don't want to discuss rates publicly as I know they pay different bands different amounts But it's my favourite place in town, really easy gig: central, always guaranteed to have people, and if you are good the shift towards the part of the bar with the stage is noticeable Backline etc is all provided. Just show up, plug in, play and leave. I happily offer a discount for that alone, that and the fact that you say "goodnight!" and you could be in your bed within 30-40min (should you choose that, you can always try somebody else's bed Remember: originals, not a covers band. I don't know about you, but I have found it really hard to get gigs above 1h playing originals, and fees are nowhere near what you normally get with covers, usually, until you become "known". People don't normally book originals bands for weddings... although we were asked to do a birthday once Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apa Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 2x45mins = QUADROPHENIA A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 [quote name='apa' timestamp='1343753329' post='1754677'] 2x45mins = QUADROPHENIA A [/quote] ok, ok, I'll get to it, I promise!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Difficult..but I think you are either set-up or you aren't and lashing together sets to make up time is a risky business. Keep the standard up and the times down.... I think 3 hr type gigs are fine if they just happen...but painful if instilled on an audience.. The last thing you should be doing is time-filling.for the sake of it.. IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Where is the next Sea Bass Kid gig, out of interest? The place that starts with W? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) [quote] Remember: originals, not a covers band. I don't know about you, but I have found it really hard to get gigs above 1h playing originals, and fees are nowhere near what you normally get with covers, usually, until you become "known". People don't normally book originals bands for weddings... although we were asked to do a birthday once [/quote] Haha, you get it when the band in front don't show on the night And, aye, know the rest Be one hell of a wedding, though! Edited July 31, 2012 by Gust0o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted August 1, 2012 Author Share Posted August 1, 2012 [quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1343757638' post='1754779'] Where is the next Sea Bass Kid gig, out of interest? The place that starts with W? [/quote] indeedy, at the corner of SB with the RM (whose real name now escapes me, HS?) Thursday 16th August. It's going to be a late one... so Friday morning is going to be tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted August 1, 2012 Author Share Posted August 1, 2012 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1343755003' post='1754718'] Difficult..but I think you are either set-up or you aren't and lashing together sets to make up time is a risky business. Keep the standard up and the times down.... I think 3 hr type gigs are fine if they just happen...but painful if instilled on an audience.. The last thing you should be doing is time-filling.for the sake of it.. IMO. [/quote] I agree, but when it is a choice between you do the gig, or you don't... A little pressure never hurt anybody It'll be alright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tauzero Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 [quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1343525047' post='1751768'] Have you been in situations where you need to come up with an extra 40min of material on the spot or something? What do you do? [/quote] Play "Comfortably Numb". "Freebird" is an acceptable alternative. I know this is a bit of a radical suggestion, but have you thought of writing a few more songs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted August 1, 2012 Author Share Posted August 1, 2012 [quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1343829382' post='1755902'] Play "Comfortably Numb". "Freebird" is an acceptable alternative. I know this is a bit of a radical suggestion, but have you thought of writing a few more songs? [/quote] I like the Freebird suggestion although it does not really fit in our style (we're doing already one cover, possibly another one or two more max). you radical suggestion is a mighty fine one. There are MANY songs written, just not polished, we're going to be drawing heavily from those, but it depends on what our already quite busy drummer can manage. I'd be happy getting 12 or so new songs up to giggable level in two weeks. In our *to do* list there's already 7 of them, easy, and hopefully more... so it's not as bad as I made it look, it's not like we're going to stand tehre just jamming for hours... this is not the 70s anymore, or so they tell me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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