BOTH PRECISIONS WITHDRAWN

[john_the_bass]

[quote name='benwhiteuk' post='190403' date='May 2 2008, 11:58 AM']in all fairness "you don't get if you don't ask".[/quote]
yes, i agree
i do think that if you say "yes i'll definitely have it" and then change your mind without informing the seller, then that's a bit low - but circumstances change and i think whilst it should be avoidable, sometimes people can say, "look, i'm really sorry I can't buy [i]x, y, z[/i] like i said i would. hope you don't have any trouble shifting it".

if somebody throws you a low ball offer, you don't have to take it personally at all. just politely decline it

[LukeFRC]

I think a lot of it is about respecting the seller.
`Forinstance if the guy wants to rise his price, so be it, its his item. He/she doesnt owe you anything just cos it is offered for sale here.

its also his choise to accept which offer he wants, regardless who PM'ed first. FOrinstance a PM saying 'i may be interested, possibly, but i want to play the thing first/could you make soundclips/ill have the money in 4 weeks' will not get the item if someone PMs 4 hours later saying "yes can i have it, whats your paypal account"

If i was selling something on here i personally would take a lower offer from someone i recognised over someone who hadn't been on here long and offered more money. My attitiude is that where i want to my 'yes to be a yes and no, no' and want to be fair and transparent at the end of the day its my item so i can choose whoes money i wish to take.

A personal dislike for me though is looking on here and seeing someone post something for the price they want for it and the first post is some numpty posting telling the seller and EVERYONE else that they think they 'will be lucky to sell it for that price'
Whats that about? So what? The 'helpful' poster isnt going to buy but just wrecks the sale making anyone else unlikely to pay the original price.
If the seller wants to sell his item for more than the 'current price' so what? Maybe to him its worth that much. Its his item, his perogative. >

[Machines]

There are a few members on here who seem to actively seek peoples items to undermine. Their reason is beyond me, is it to ensure the community isn't ripped off ? I doubt it. Is it to try and get one over on someone and seem more knowledgeable ? I reckon.

[CS2]

The numpty element has always been there. Some people do it because some numbskull seller wants retail for a used item. Some people do it to be contentious.

This is a good board for buying and selling and one has to put up with the bad (which I didnt do re my previous post) ^_^

[MythSte]

feedback system ftw.

[3V17C]

hmmm some interesting observations on here... personally i like the For Sale element of this site - you get some interesting stuff turn up and normally at good prices.

I've done a few deals thru here with no problems. Its not always the potential buyers who are a pain in the bits though, sometimes its the sellers too. I remember someone had a certain bass for sale not so long ago and i PM'd him with a few questions etc about it and he seemed to take that as me saying yes, i'd definitely have it and he put a SOLD notice up on it before i'd even said yay or nay! then he got a bit snotty when i said, 'hold on, i've not decided 100% if i want it yet'. . . aside from that though its all good this end so far.

peace

c

[cheddatom]

What if for sale threads were editable by the seller, so if someone made a post that they thought could effect the sale, the seller could edit/remove it? It's their sale, their thread, PM them if you think they should change the price and you want to help them.

[ped]

I don't fully understand why people can't just say 'Thanks but that is a bit low' or just go with the assumption that the item is not sold or held until the money has arrived. I thought that went without saying?

[Toasted]

Those are pretty much the rules I hold to Ped.

On the basses I've sold recently I've had alot, ALOT of tyre-kickers.

[Machines]

Yeah - I wouldn't remove anything from sale until I had the cash. I would put it on hold for someone I knew, but that's it really.

[ped]

[quote name='Toasted' post='190461' date='May 2 2008, 01:01 PM']Those are pretty much the rules I hold to Ped.

On the basses I've sold recently I've had alot, ALOT of tyre-kickers.[/quote]

Me too. I welcome tyre kickers, after all it is a lot of money to pass over for something quite personal. People are on the whole decent and just looking for the right investment.

[Kev]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='190450' date='May 2 2008, 12:56 PM']What if for sale threads were editable by the seller, so if someone made a post that they thought could effect the sale, the seller could edit/remove it? It's their sale, their thread, PM them if you think they should change the price and you want to help them.[/quote]
+1, very good idea, but i dont think its possible, i know its not on phpbb software...

Edited May 2, 2008 by BassManKev

[TimmyC]

I think a lot of the problem comes with impulsive decisions. A lot of people may see something they think they want then PM the seller thinking they have to get in first before anyone else. They then realise after a day or so, actually I really don't want this and the deal breaks down. That's the way of the internet and it will always be here, its just one of the negatives out of selling your stuff for free. Something isn't sold until the money is in your account/hand etc.

What really bugs me though is when people comment on other people's prices in their thread. Or say you have no chance in selling x for y amount. A simple PM would be a lot better. The buyer also has the right to sell an item for however much or little as they like as it has a certain value to them.

I have no problem with offers - if it’s not enough then just decline. What's the big deal?

[ped]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='190450' date='May 2 2008, 12:56 PM']What if for sale threads were editable by the seller, so if someone made a post that they thought could effect the sale, the seller could edit/remove it? It's their sale, their thread, PM them if you think they should change the price and you want to help them.[/quote]

We discussed this at the beginning and IIRC tried it briefly but it led to mass confusion. Sellers can edit their original post to reflect price changes. Anything else on the thread is fair game, and often leads to the seller being helped out with regards to a price or some information on the item. Rarely has anyone undermined a thread enough that they aren't instantly obvious as trying to do so and therefore disregarded and/or jumped on by other forum members and I can count on my fingers how many times I have had a reported post about this issue, so I don't think there is a need.

The rules/FAQ on the sale forums should be of some help.

Its all about respect.

Cheers
ped

[ped]

[quote name='TimmyC' post='190474' date='May 2 2008, 01:12 PM']I think a lot of the problem comes with impulsive decisions. A lot of people may see something they think they want then PM the seller thinking they have to get in first before anyone else. They then realise after a day or so, actually I really don't want this and the deal breaks down. That's the way of the internet and it will always be here, its just one of the negatives out of selling your stuff for free. Something isn't sold until the money is in your account/hand etc.

What really bugs me though is when people comment on other people's prices in their thread. Or say you have no chance in selling x for y amount. A simple PM would be a lot better. The buyer also has the right to sell an item for however much or little as they like as it has a certain value to them.

I have no problem with offers - if it’s not enough then just decline. What's the big deal?[/quote]


What I was trying to say! Cheers
ped

[CS2]

[quote name='TimmyC' post='190474' date='May 2 2008, 01:12 PM']The buyer also has the right to sell an item for however much or little as they like as it has a certain value to them.[/quote]


Actually..no..the buyer has the right to [i]ask[/i] for however etc. Some things have a high residual value (Lovetone, Carl Thompson) and others do not (the aforementioned Stingray-lovely basses btw). Some buyers for various reasons (ignorance or greed) want the top price for their items.

We have done it before but this is a message board and not a sale site. So if someone wants £1k for a 2 year old Stingray in std colours, do we owe it to potential ripped off buyers that you can get a new one for this price?

Some buyers have requested more for limited editions, gold hardware whatever and explained it. Fair do's.

Being civil to each other should be a given.

[clagooey]

[quote name='TimmyC' post='190474' date='May 2 2008, 01:12 PM']I think a lot of the problem comes with impulsive decisions. A lot of people may see something they think they want then PM the seller thinking they have to get in first before anyone else. They then realise after a day or so, actually I really don't want this and the deal breaks down. That's the way of the internet and it will always be here, its just one of the negatives out of selling your stuff for free. Something isn't sold until the money is in your account/hand etc.

What really bugs me though is when people comment on other people's prices in their thread. Or say you have no chance in selling x for y amount. A simple PM would be a lot better. The buyer also has the right to sell an item for however much or little as they like as it has a certain value to them.

I have no problem with offers - if it’s not enough then just decline. What's the big deal?[/quote]

That pretty much sums up my views on this; apart from the last point. I think the big deal is that this never used to happen. People are used to it on larger places, but this has always seemed like a fairly tightly-knit group of people. I guess it's a sign that this forum isn't what it used to be in some respects. It's definitely not all bad; the more people, the merrier in many ways. I guess many people (me included (i only just signed up, but have been watching for a while)) liked it as a small community, where people knew most other people, and could trust them. Especially with the amount of people who sign up specifically to sell/ buy things.

Ah well. I guess it doesn't seem great right now, but I'm sure it'll grow on me

Clagooey

[Rayman]

The for sale activity on here is so high, that people get carried away when they spot something they want, but can't afford. Trades are very common of course, and I've done a few myself on here with no problem at all, because most of us don't have spare cash, but we do have spare basses, and quite often, if there's a bass you don't use much, you fancy a change.

However, to commit to buy, then pull out is bloody irritaing to say the least. I had a Gibson Les Paul for sale on BW (many of the old BW crowd will remember), a member (albeit a new member), commited to buy it. He couldn't pay me straight away, so I agreed to put it on hold until the end of the month when he was paid. Meanwhile, I bought my current Stingray from Nash with overdraught money, knowing I'd get the Les Paul cash within a handfull of days to pay the overdraught back.

Needless to say, after I'd waited a month for the money, the buyer pulled out after changing his mind. I was rather upset.

This used to be a very honourable place for trading, and in my opinion, was a friendlier place altogether a handful of years back, but I'm afraid if you're selling/trading stuff here now, with members you don't know, you have to be very careful, and business like.

I feel sorry for Chris, because he's a good bloke, and the basses for sale are nice too, I just wish I could afford to buy one of them.

Now.............what else have I got to trade?

[BassBod]

Its all about respect and manners...and some people don't value these things when there's a bargain to be grabbed - shame, but that's how it is. The benefit here is the feedback, and the ability to trade with like minded and knowledgable people and build relationships. I've bought/sold/haggled with some great people here and pretty much without any hassle, but I can totally understand Chris's perspective.

If someone really does mess you around I would use the feedback, its the only mechanism we've got - I just hope the mods don't get too fed up with the hassle...

BB

[minty fresh death]

I'm glad this thread came about, it was well overdue.

Almost worth a sticky, so people can learn etiquette.

[TimmyC]

[quote name='TimmyC' post='190474' date='May 2 2008, 01:12 PM']The buyer also has the right to sell an item for however much or little as they like as it has a certain value to them.[/quote]

[quote name='CS2' post='190511' date='May 2 2008, 01:48 PM']Actually..no..the buyer has the right to [i]ask[/i] for however etc.[/quote]

Precisely. Poor use of vocab on my part. Whether they get what they're asking is a totally different thing.

[CS2]

[quote name='TimmyC' post='190710' date='May 2 2008, 05:02 PM']Precisely. Poor use of vocab on my part. Whether they get what they're asking is a totally different thing.[/quote]

It was me it pendantic mode but with some sellers you never know...

[Kev]

[quote name='TimmyC' post='190710' date='May 2 2008, 05:02 PM']Precisely. Poor use of vocab on my part. Whether they get what they're asking is a totally different thing.[/quote]
ye, but like in the stingrays case, tellin them that they are 'lucky to get that much'?? thats just not nice

[classic]

One of the biggest problems of "naming and shamming" is when you only have one half of the story. Ask Benwhite to show the pm where I have offered £500, he will decline to do this as he will not be able to show you it. Also ask him to show the pm where I said he was lucky to be offered that much?
Neither of his statements are true! I still have the pm's I sent, and my first offer was 550.00 based on what I had seen them go for on eBay, check the completed items bit on eBay and you will see that one went for £600 the other day, my last offer to him was £580. If that is not enough for him that’s fine. I have not come on here to make enemies, I saw items being sold on eBay around my offer price without him having to pay eBay and paypal fees, so what’s the problem?

Perhaps before people make comments they should find out the truth first.
if someone would care to tell me how I can post the PM's I sent to Ben, I will post them on here for you all to see!

Ben all my PM's to you were polite, as were your replies, so I don’t see why you feel the need to lie about the contents of the pm? Unless you’re just bored and had nothing better to do than to invent pm's just so you could jump on the bandwagon and make a post.

IMO naming and shamming is fine when its justified, making an offer for something that one person thinks is fair but another person doesn’t is not grounds to try to humiliate someone.


[quote name='BassManKev' post='190798' date='May 2 2008, 07:22 PM']ye, but like in the stingrays case, tellin them that they are 'lucky to get that much'?? thats just not nice[/quote]

[Kev]

hmmm....