ChrisF Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Firstly, I cant believe how much difference a little bit of fettling makes. Bass was sounding very strange... a bit twangy as my missus put it, so I layed it down in the front room (loads more room than where I usually practice) and had a proper look at it. And the bridge was way out..pushed over to one side and leaning forward....so I sorted it out with a mallet and a block of wood...and hey presto...it actually sounds like a bass now. Anyway..now to the question... Im told that the strings will go out of tune/stretch, to start with, but how often should I actually retune it?? I ask because Ive already had a the D string break whilst tuniing it and Im not sure if this was a dodgy string or me tuning it too often or too much. It seems to be out of tune everytime I pick it up. I use a chromatic tuner as recommended....but it just seems to me that the strings have to be wound to within an inch of their life to get anywhere near the right note. I realise that the strings (which came with the bass) wont be top of the range and are almost certainly high tension...( I will be getting some Inovation strings eventually.....but at the moment the piggy bank is empty), but surely they should tune up without creaking like a suspension bridge in a gale force wind ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 My laminate bass seems to hold its tuning like a solidbody bass guitar, hardly ever needs adjustment, whereas my carved bass usually needs tuning every time I pick it up - especially if the weather has changed a lot. The strings issue is that usually after fitting new strings there's some slack around the posts and some elasticity in the strings themselves that will take some time to work out. It's less of a problem if you wind the strings particularly well, and the more you play the bass the quicker the tuning will become stable. But this is a completely different issue to your bass simply going out of tune of its own accord. That is just something you'll have to get used to. Your D string: It's unlikely you've broken it from tuning it too often. If you go above the intended pitch for the string you could damage it, but if you're just tuning up to concert pitch it shouldn't cause problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invicta59 Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 It seems strange that the bridge should be pulled forward. The strings should sit in a groove on the bridge with about 33% of the string width resting in the groove and the remainder standing proud. Sometime they drag on the bridge during tuning and can pull it forward. Loosen each string individually and put some graphite into the groove and it should slide through/over more easily. It is probably tilting upwards due to needing a lot of tuning upwards as the strings stretch. Some strings will settle in quickly, others take ages to settle in, depending on string composition (steel, nylon, kevlar, gut). If you are playing slap style already, that will give your strings a good workout, so expect some tuning problems while they get fully bedded in. Last time I put a new set on (Innovations) they took 2 weeks before they held their tuning for a full set.... BTW, if the strings are "stuck" in the groove, wacking the bridge with a mallet won't do a lot for your string's lifespan..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kesh Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 [quote name='ChrisF' timestamp='1343593595' post='1752545'] It seems to be out of tune everytime I pick it up. [/quote]Leaning it on the tuners when you put it down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 [quote name='Kesh' timestamp='1343604506' post='1752719'] Leaning it on the tuners when you put it down? [/quote] Nope, never Gonna try the graphite idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 Right...now Im really angry Loosened the strings one at a time and put the graphite on the bridge grooves and the nut grooves..... After I had done them all I started to tune her up. Brilliant, E and A strings are perfect. However, the D string got to C....and I thought great nearly there, but then I heard a very strange noise. It was coming from the top of the bass...all of a sudden loud TWANG !!! and the D string has gone. It looks like the G is going too.... I will put a pic on when I find my camera (bloomin kids ) ...but Im really not happy..and Thomann are gonna get one heck of an email. Think I might sweet talk the missus and get the Innovations now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Where did the D break? Were the windings rubbing other strings or anything odd like that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 It broke about 5mm above where it crosses the nut...which is also where the G string looks like it is going to go. I made sure that it was wound as per a thread on this site...eg: no crossing other strings etc. Im just fed up now.....only been able to play it for about 4 days out of the 2 or 3 weeks that Ive had it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero9 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 It can be frustrating getting to grips with your first DB. The strings breaking above where they cross the nut could be down to a weak string (due to excessive / repeated bending) or a badly cut nut. I would recommend you consult a DB luthier or someone who specialises in setting up DB's as it may cost you more in the long run through trial and error. Some specialists are very friendly and might be happy to look at the instrument for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 This is the D string [IMG]http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/Chris_Finn/D.jpg[/IMG] ..and this is the G string..I have circled the dodgy area..although its a bit hard to see as I used my phone camera. [IMG]http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/Chris_Finn/G.jpg[/IMG] Cheers Zero9....yeah I would like to take it to a luthier...I think we have one quite close....free would be good as Im skinter than a skint thing at the moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invicta59 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 So when you said about 5mm above the nut, you mean about where the top of your ellipse is on the photo? To me, the G looks to be set very deeply into the nut. Did you notice if the D was the same? Any sharp edges will be damaging to the string as it crosses over (or through!) the nut and/or bridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 [quote name='invicta59' timestamp='1343653701' post='1753122'] So when you said about 5mm above the nut, you mean about where the top of your ellipse is on the photo? To me, the G looks to be set very deeply into the nut. Did you notice if the D was the same? Any sharp edges will be damaging to the string as it crosses over (or through!) the nut and/or bridge. [/quote] yeah...just about where the top is. Doesnt seem to be any sharp edges ,and I don't think the D was too far in, but Im new to all this..so I could be wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zero9 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Judging by the other strings (E & A), there appears to be a definite 'kink' where these run across the nut slot. To me it looks like the nut needs some attention. As you say, bit difficult to see from the photo, however, unless you know how to shape a DB nut, I suggest speaking to some local repairers / luthiers first. Shaping a nut shouldn't be more than around £20 - £25 and will definitely be cheaper than breaking strings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 [quote name='zero9' timestamp='1343674165' post='1753564'] Judging by the other strings (E & A), there appears to be a definite 'kink' where these run across the nut slot. To me it looks like the nut needs some attention. As you say, bit difficult to see from the photo, however, unless you know how to shape a DB nut, I suggest speaking to some local repairers / luthiers first. Shaping a nut shouldn't be more than around £20 - £25 and will definitely be cheaper than breaking strings. [/quote] 20 quid isnt too bad I suppose. What do you think it needs ?? ...deeper grooves or something ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invicta59 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 If it is the case that there is a "sharp point" on the nut that is causing too severe a kink, it will be a case of evening it out and smoothing the string path. I'd try and get a new string from the supplier, tell them that you think there is a problem, get a luthier to have a look and estimate the work required. You might then want to fix the bass you've got, or get it replaced under warranty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 Yup....email sent to Thomann yesterday....Im not angry, just dissapointed They sent the last string out straight away. This time I have also mentioned the possible need for a luthier, Im hoping that they will offer to pay for it. I will have a close look at the nut to see if I can see anything obvious, but Im wondering if its just bad strings....although I would like it sorted before I think about puting a new set of Innovations on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 Taken a few pictures of the head....what do you think...does it need some work ??? [IMG]http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/Chris_Finn/dbl.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/Chris_Finn/dbf.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l491/Chris_Finn/dbr.jpg[/IMG] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 You can see the stretching/fraying of the G string a bit better in the last one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Unless it's sold as being fitted with a particular brand of string, the strings on cheaper new basses are pretty much placeholders, and it's normal to fit some proper strings before you do any serious playing on it. The stock strings often have solid metal cores which are particularly prone to breakage on a double bass - quality steel core strings will have a braided core. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 [quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1343732962' post='1754255'] Unless it's sold as being fitted with a particular brand of string, the strings on cheaper new basses are pretty much placeholders, and it's normal to fit some proper strings before you do any serious playing on it. The stock strings often have solid metal cores which are particularly prone to breakage on a double bass - quality steel core strings will have a braided core. [/quote] Thats pretty much what I thought..and she will be getting some Innovations just as soon as finances will allow ...but surely the strings on it have to be "fit for purpose" ??? I would hope that just tuning them to the right note shouldnt cause them to break... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invicta59 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 [quote name='ChrisF' timestamp='1343734807' post='1754294'] ...but surely the strings on it have to be "fit for purpose" ??? I would hope that just tuning them to the right note shouldnt cause them to break... [/quote] Not an unreasonable assumption, but it's also very true about the quality of strings fitted. Mine (which was a £1100 bass almost 10 years ago), came with strings that were only really useful for cheesecutting - as my fingertips found out about an hour after I got it home. While I would never be able to recommend garden implements as good things to play, you might be able to get a set of weed whackers for about £20 which would, while being dreadful tonally, would probably be far superior to the standard fit strings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) Just got an email from Thomann..they are sending me a set of "[size=3][font=Verdana]Daddario Prelude J610-3/4M double bass strings" for free. Hopefully these will keep me going until I can get the Innovations.[/font][/size] [font=Verdana][size=2][size=3]I nearly bought a set of weedwackers..but someone on here warned me off them so I didnt bother in the end[/size].[/size][/font] Edited July 31, 2012 by ChrisF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invicta59 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 [quote name='ChrisF' timestamp='1343753838' post='1754687'] [font=Verdana][size=2]I nearly bought a set of weedwackers..but someone on here warned me off them so I didnt bother in the end.[/size][/font] [/quote] [size=2]As i said, I wouldn't recommend them, but as a cheap "it'll keep you going" idea if you didn't get a replacement, thought I'd throw it up there.. oh, why the whisper?[/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisF Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 Just got a text from Thomann...strings posted today yay . Although, Ive been on google and cant seem to find out much about them..ah well as free stopgaps they should hopefully be ok. I copied and pasted the string name from their email.....must have been in a smaller font Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 They should be a decent quality string, but might or might not be to your taste as I think they're supposed to be a dark sounding string aimed at classical students. They'll probably bow easily but might be quite thumpy sounding pizzicato. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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