ToastBeans Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Hello everyone, For several years now I have owned a Washburn XB-102 (I know, I know...). It has been playable but just barely. The action and string tension are just way too high. I took it in to have it set up properly, the tech did the best he could but pointed out to me that the neck was splitting apart at the scallop shaped seam between the neck and headstock (see photo). Is there any relatively easy fix for this, or is it one of those "you have to break it all the way to fix it" types of things? Should I just get a new neck? Would a Mighty Mite fit it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettsguitars Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 (edited) If you can't feel the 'split' when playing there is no problem. Finishes usually start degrading around that area which could be the issue (not an issue). You can just sand it smooth if you want to but otherwise, leave it alone. Sounds like the tech was just talking out of his split. I can't see anything in the picture. A scarf joint like that would never just wriggle loose. Edited July 29, 2012 by lettsguitars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToastBeans Posted July 29, 2012 Author Share Posted July 29, 2012 You can feel, not a gap, but the neck wood raised above the head wood. It is about 1mm's difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettsguitars Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Sounds like the headstock has shrunk. If it has a natural oil finish, the neck would be oiled naturally by the hands whereas the head would not. Just an idea. The joint would definately not just gradually slip away like that. Sand it flush. Or. . . remove the fingerboard cut the headstock off, plane all surfaces, reglue the neck/head and attach brand new fingerboard. Or. . . buy a new neck, which would be cheaper but probably impossible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted July 29, 2012 Share Posted July 29, 2012 Good evening, ToastBeans... Disclaimer: I'm not a luthier... It can't do much harm now to try to 'bodge' it; it won't get better on it's own. You could 'syringe' wood glue into the crack (Titebond..?), clamp it shut and whack a couple of 1/4" dowels diagonally from low end to top end through the joint, being careful not to drill dowel holes right through the fingerboard. If that doesn't hold it, it's NND (New Neck Day...). Can't help with alternative necks, I'm afraid. Keep us posted as to progress, please..? Hope this helps... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToastBeans Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 Thanks for the suggestions! I suppose that it stands to reason that the joint wouldn't gradually break like that. I wouldn't mind "syringing" it but I don't think that there's enough of a crack to fit anything in. Though, if it is not the neck, I'm curious as to what is making this such a pain to play. I initially took it to the shop because I made a royal mess of the intonation and there was all sorts of buzzing and dead spots. He was able to alleviate a lot of this, but at the expense of the action and apparently the string tension... I'm thinking it may be NND indeed. Letts - why do you say it would be impossible? Could Warmoth not do it, or is the heel too different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 (edited) [quote name='ToastBeans' timestamp='1343600548' post='1752667'] Hello everyone, For several years now I have owned a Washburn XB-102 (I know, I know...). It has been playable but just barely. The action and string tension are just way too high. I took it in to have it set up properly, the tech did the best he could but pointed out to me that the neck was splitting apart at the scallop shaped seam between the neck and headstock (see photo). Is there any relatively easy fix for this, or is it one of those "you have to break it all the way to fix it" types of things? Should I just get a new neck? Would a Mighty Mite fit it? [/quote] Before you went doing anything that can't be undone try this route [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/49897-how-to-shim-a-neck/"]http://basschat.co.u...to-shim-a-neck/[/url] If the action is as high as you say (what is the gap measurement between the bottom of your two E strings and the 12th fret for example?) I would doubt it's been caused entirely by such a fine gap in your scarf joint. Hard to tell from your pic, at face value I'd agree it could be just shrinkage. Try detuning completely then study the "gap" as you retune, does it become more obvious - can you see it widen? What you could try is some of the Evostik wood glue (in the green bottle) - not the quick drying one. Water it down [i]slightly[/i] so that it flows better and paint it into the crack with a paintbrush (when the guitar is tuned up & the gap is open). Get as much of it in there as you can, try blowing it in there as hard as you can, until no more will go in. Then detune, push teh strings to the sides & clamp it closed between two pieces of soft wood. Leave it at least 48 hours, more preferably. If it doesn't work you only lost the price of the glue. What "Dad3353" describes is the usual way of fixing a broken scarf, many SGs have suffered that fate. It works, but it ain't pretty - and a real luthier will charge for it. If Mighty Mite don't do a straight retro-fit replacement you'd still be paying someone to alter the heel or the pocket - or both - to fit them together. MM necks are very good & priced accordingly. There's a bass like yours on Ebay just now at £100, not much more than a MM neck alone, for a donor neck & lots of spare parts. PS. Might be asking the obvious - but have you asked Washburn if they've heard of this before - or if they carry spare necks for them? I've only approached them once, but they were helpful. Edited July 31, 2012 by Big_Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToastBeans Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1343748406' post='1754578'] Before you went doing anything that can't be undone try this route [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/49897-how-to-shim-a-neck/"]http://basschat.co.u...to-shim-a-neck/[/url] If the action is as high as you say (what is the gap measurement between the bottom of your two E strings and the 12th fret for example?) I would doubt it's been caused entirely by such a fine gap in your scarf joint. Hard to tell from your pic, at face value I'd agree it could be just shrinkage. Try detuning completely then study the "gap" as you retune, does it become more obvious - can you see it widen? What you could try is some of the Evostik wood glue (in the green bottle) - not the quick drying one. Water it down [i]slightly[/i] so that it flows better and paint it into the crack with a paintbrush (when the guitar is tuned up & the gap is open). Get as much of it in there as you can, try blowing it in there as hard as you can, until no more will go in. Then detune, push teh strings to the sides & clamp it closed between two pieces of soft wood. Leave it at least 48 hours, more preferably. If it doesn't work you only lost the price of the glue. What "Dad3353" describes is the usual way of fixing a broken scarf, many SGs have suffered that fate. It works, but it ain't pretty - and a real luthier will charge for it. If Mighty Mite don't do a straight retro-fit replacement you'd still be paying someone to alter the heel or the pocket - or both - to fit them together. MM necks are very good & priced accordingly. There's a bass like yours on Ebay just now at £100, not much more than a MM neck alone, for a donor neck & lots of spare parts. PS. Might be asking the obvious - but have you asked Washburn if they've heard of this before - or if they carry spare necks for them? I've only approached them once, but they were helpful. [/quote] Upon closer inspection, the neck has started warping? a little. The neck starts to bow/lift up from the 5th fret to the headstock. Could that be due to shrinkage? I'm guessing that I just need a new neck (unfortunate). I saw that on ebay but, being a university student, it is still a bit too rich for my blood. I'm in talks with a local luthier about making a replacement neck. if that's too much, it might be time to switch to a fender clone... (sad face). I love this cheap little bass and wish that it would play right. As it is, I have to hammer it and everything comes out sounding like funk/punk! Washburn isn't helping that much. They told me to go to Warmoth, but, as I understand it, the heel/pocket is too different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToastBeans Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 How hard is it to route out the pocket? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettsguitars Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Easy as chips. I can lay down the how to if you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 You don't mention where you are. If you let us know where you are maybe somebody local to you could have a look at it for you before you do anything drastic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToastBeans Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 Letts - That would be fantastic! RhysP - I am actually in the States. TalkBass was down when I tried to register, so I came "across the pond" as it were. Honestly, most of the great bassists that I admire are from the UK and there seem to be less stupid kids on this forum, so I thought I'd get a decent spectrum of info on here. Too many of the American forums devolve into brand-loyalty based in-fighting by the end of the first page! So, for the time being, I'm looking at dropping a Mighty Mite MM2908 neck onto the Washburn XB-120 body (not really sure if the current neck is more of a P or J one...). I am still waiting to get the heel/pocket dimensions from Washburn. I am also going to put a BADASS bridge on it (happen to have one sitting around). Just for fun, I might also put a pickup cover and a thumb rest in there somewhere. What do you guys think? Any further tips/advice? The next big improvement down the line is a refinish and a decent set of pickups, but that's a whole other thread waiting to happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToastBeans Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 By the way Stu, I've tried shimming this thing all sorts of ways in the past (that's how I got it in the shop in the first place!). The problem is in the head end of the neck and I just don't have the skills to repair it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 Don't try and bodge it, take it to a proper tech who will know what to do with it. They'll tell you what it will cost, it might be a sand down and oil again. If it needed more work than that, the first tech should have done something about it or not done anything to charge you for other than say it needs sorting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 [quote name='ToastBeans' timestamp='1343778702' post='1755264'] By the way Stu, I've tried shimming this thing all sorts of ways in the past (that's how I got it in the shop in the first place!). The problem is in the head end of the neck and I just don't have the skills to repair it. [/quote] Fair enough; it almost certainly could be fixed. A luthier I know showed me how to fix (just for interest, I wasn't about to try it) a twisted neck using steam. Your only problem, as you're aware, is the luthier's cost against the value of the bass or a new neck. If your scale length matches and MM do a neck that will fit - with or without a bit of work - then it sounds like the path to go down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1343784656' post='1755299'] Don't try and bodge it, take it to a proper tech who will know what to do with it. They'll tell you what it will cost, it might be a sand down and oil again. If it needed more work than that, the first tech should have done something about it or not done anything to charge you for other than say it needs sorting. [/quote] Inclined to this one. Does seem odd not to offer, to be honest - I mean, who wouldn't want the business? Well, unless they couldn't service, it, mind... I think there are probably easier ways of resolving the action, some mentioned here - such as shimming - than buying a whole new neck. It sounds as if, with a little effort and some know-how (and kudos to Letts for volunteering to assist), you could get this back to playing - and learn a little in the process. If, having gone through the options and heard from Letts it still sounds a little too difficult, or you're uneasy with it - well, take it on in to a shop; but at least you'll now know what you should be asking them to do, avoiding them charging you for fiddling about with it Assume the bass isn't a regular player now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToastBeans Posted August 1, 2012 Author Share Posted August 1, 2012 Gust0o - I am coming from the world of guitar, so this is actually my only bass at this point. It plays, but only with the subtly of an avalanche! I don't really know of any real luthiers that are accessible to me. There are a few shops here and home, but, none that I particularly trust 100% (is there some sort of accreditation or something I can look for?) . That being said, I [i]would[/i] like to learn to do this myself and make the best out of my situation. As it is, I do have access to a router for the next few days.. In regards to the cost of repair vs. initial cost - I only spent about £32 on it, so, the sky's the limit, I suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted August 1, 2012 Share Posted August 1, 2012 [quote name='ToastBeans' timestamp='1343860778' post='1756636'] I don't really know of any real luthiers that are accessible to me. There are a few shops here and home, but, none that I particularly trust 100% (is there some sort of accreditation or something I can look for?) . [/quote] http://basschat.co.uk/topic/26654-recommended-luthiers/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted August 2, 2012 Share Posted August 2, 2012 [quote name='ToastBeans' timestamp='1343860778' post='1756636'] In regards to the cost of repair vs. initial cost - I only spent about £32 on it, so, the sky's the limit, I suppose. [/quote] If they're on Ebay, as one was earlier in the thread for around £100, you wouldn't find a decent luthier who could fix it for less. Maybe find another & keep the one you have for spares or practising repairs on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToastBeans Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 I don't know if anyone still cares but, I took her to the shop back home and they gave it a once over - The nut was cut too high (thus the action), the relief was royally f***ed (thus the tension), and, the biggest problem, the 2nd fret is seated way too high (thus the action/buzzing). Should be fixed over the weekend and back in my loving arms soon (I'm out of town). Thanks to everybody for their help and insight. This is a job that I wish I could have done myself, but ultimately, I'm glad I didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettsguitars Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Glad you got it sorted man. You should get yourself setup for basic fretwork/setups for future issues. Easy now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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