Al Heeley Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) Really struggling to dial in a good solid sound with my amp head and cab, been trying to settle with it for 6 months but its just not doing it for me. I have a Peavey 450 tour head and 2 hartke XL cabs; a 4 x 10 and a 1 x 15. I use mainly the 4 x 10, only bring out the 1 x 15 for bigger venues. Most of the time I'm playing a Geddy Lee Jazz through this. The band do loud punk & rock covers from Sex Pistols to green day, clash to undertones, Jam, etc. We have 2 lead guitarists, one prefers a more metal distortion sound, the other cuts through better with a tele and a mesa boogie amp. I end up trying to get a bigger bass presence by having to boost the mids and ending up with it sounding a bit boxy or honky. Its like there isn't enough presence in the low-mid freq range without it sounding woolly, I have to drive the amp nearly flat out so the red peak light is often flashing. I think one of the guitars is taking up a lot of the low end frequency real estate, but he also plays in anothe band with a bassist who has same bass as me, using sansamp preamp and 1 x 10 markbass cab, and his sound is always full and authorative. Mind you, they only have the one guitar in their band and its decidedly lighter music. I dont know whether to swap out the lot or try a different head or keep the peavey head and try a different cab. Its the sort of thing that you can only really try out with the rest of the band at gig level, you get no real appreciation of it by noodling in a music shop. I'd be interested in opinions on the above amp head/cab combo and for claiming back more of the low end territory. Edited July 30, 2012 by Al Heeley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 [quote name='Al Heeley' timestamp='1343653182' post='1753113'] ...I have to drive the amp nearly flat out so the red peak light is often flashing. I think one of the guitars is taking up a lot of the low end frequency real estate...[/quote] These two things aren't helping. Maybe have a word with the guitard, if it's possible to do so without a tantrum..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Do you have both pickups on full? Back one off gets you more mid in a more natural way. cutting some proper lows will help with the peaking, peavey heads do seem to do lots of low that isn't always fun for cabs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Heeley Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 There is a low cut switch I've never used, maybe give that a try next practice! Re pup vols I tend to have one on about 70 - 80% and the other on 100 to avoid that too-scooped sound. Have also talked with the guitards about the amount of low end they pump out and they nod in a patronising way then continue as before Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 May be worth only having the bass pickup on. And, strange as it may seem, try just the 410. With these two things, you should be able to select more low end, but it may be tighter. I do the same sort of music (tho with a Precision), and have always found a single 410 to be more than enough. A local band I see, who also plays approx the same, their bassist uses a Jazz, into an amp with a 410, and he sounds great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Heeley Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) I do tend to use only the 4x10, 90% of the time Lozz, I'm assuming your 4x10 is the Schroeder you list in your sig? Out of interest, what set up does your local band you refer to use for head and cab? Edited July 30, 2012 by Al Heeley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 [quote name='Al Heeley' timestamp='1343654131' post='1753131'] ...talked with the guitards about the amount of low end they pump out and they nod in a patronising way then continue as before...[/quote] So annoying... can't you just sack one of 'em? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 (edited) What does the amp sound like when it's just you and the drummer? If the sound you want is there but disappears once the guitarists appear in the mix then you have to have a word with them. If it's not there at stage volume then you need to get a new amp. I had the same with a tc electronics classic 450 which just couldn't give me the low mid frequencies I wanted. I switched to an Ashdown ABM and I got the sound I was after (I now use an Ashdown MIBass which is just as good). Edited July 30, 2012 by gjones Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 [quote name='Al Heeley' timestamp='1343655970' post='1753174'] I do tend to use only the 4x10, 90% of the time Lozz, I'm assuming your 4x10 is the Schroeder you list in your sig? Out of interest, what set up does your local band you refer to use for head and cab? [/quote] Yes, it`s the Schroeder 410, though I`ve had Eden, Ampeg, and Marshall 410s too. All were fine cabs, but too heavy. The main guitarist uses a Peavey JSX 100 watt valve head, with either two Marshall 112s, a Marshall 212, or a Peavey JSX 412, depending on size of venue, the singer/sometimes guitarist has a Marshall JVM 100 watt 212 combo. I`ve also had a fair few amps too, Marshall, TC, Ampeg, Orange, GK. With all of them it`s always been virtually flat eq, maybe slight boost on highs and lows, and cut in mids. If it`s that beefy low end you`re after, a Precision may be the route. I tried my setup the other night at a gig, but with a Stingray, and although I could hear it fine, that solidity just wasn`t there. Back to my trusty Precisions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyBRebelMC Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 It's sometimes worth trying a counter intuitive approach - want more authority in the bass? Roll off the bass and turn up the overall volume... It's very easy to get into a cycle of increasing low mids then high mids and you end up with a very boomy or nasal sound. It all depends on the character of your rig to start with but might be worth a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Heeley Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 some useful pointers to work with there, thx for the comments. Not in a good place financially at the moment so i will persevere some more, I will take time to experiment more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtcat Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Your guitarists have to take some responsibility here. You are a team and how the sound fits together is totally different in different bands so they can't just take the approach "well it works in my other band so it'll work here". In my experience the heavy metal guitar distortions carry a lot of low end and eat into your space. Maybe why so many metal bass players tune lower than norm to get under the guitars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 [quote name='gjones' timestamp='1343664403' post='1753349'] What does the amp sound like when it's just you and the drummer? If the sound you want is there but disappears once the guitarists appear in the mix then you have to have a word with them. If it's not there at stage volume then you need to get a new amp. I had the same with a tc electronics classic 450 which just couldn't give me the low mid frequencies I wanted. I switched to an Ashdown ABM and I got the sound I was after (I now use an Ashdown MIBass which is just as good). [/quote] Start along these lines... If the amp/cab config can produce the sound at some point on its own, then you have a problem with your band mix... If it can't THEN you can get involved in swapping out your kit... and if you get to that point, I'd borrow stuff to point you in the right direction. I really don't see the point of the bass player dancing through hoops to accomodate the band sound...as you end up with a sound that kind of works but depresses you.. whilst everyone else just carries on and loads you with the problem...which ultimately means that your band sound might be crap but they are all-right-jack. And then you ask yourself..why am I playing with these people..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1343721913' post='1754012'] And then you ask yourself... why am I playing with these people..?[/quote] I generally ask myself this question quite early on in the proceedings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Good points, JTUK. I`ve recently tried out Stingrays in one of my bands, and whilst they sound good with the band, I`m just not comfortable with them, so it`s back to the Precisions for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Heeley Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1343721913' post='1754012'] whilst everyone else just carries on and loads you with the problem... ...And then you ask yourself..why am I playing with these people..? [/quote]^Feeling this at the moment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckstop Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 See if you can borrow a tone shaping pedal such as a BDI-21, Sansamp, Bass Xciter, Bass Attack etc. They can really give your tone extra presence in a band setting. Another thing; maybe ask if your band could play a little quieter? If you're maxing out a Tour 450, you're very loud indeed!! Truckstop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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