charic Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 No problems We need to decide on a panel of tests then that should be done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomBassmonkey Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1344310920' post='1762622'] Plus one [/quote] Plus another one. Ideally we'd have the same model cabs in 410 and 210 format. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I'd be quite interested in a Barefaced vs the world test. They're so highly regarded on here it would be great to just try it against some other cabs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 Not only the most highly regarded but also bring the 'ugly ducklings' along too. Let's see if there's any surprising results for the underdog! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essexbasscat Posted August 7, 2012 Share Posted August 7, 2012 I'd certainly be interested in hearing a test like this, especially with the BF cabs present. London or Anglia venue ? or midway ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlungerModerno Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 [quote name='essexbasscat' timestamp='1344361736' post='1763398'] I'd certainly be interested in hearing a test like this, especially with the BF cabs present. London or Anglia venue ? or midway ? [/quote] You should email Alex Claber... He seems confident in his designs, and would probably like to see them tested fairly (but you'd do it fair... wouldn't you?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 I'll organise for an Anglia venue, we're currently discussing Pboro to help with transport issues Yep, Blind tests and fairness is key Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essexbasscat Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 When's the date of the next EABB for this to happen ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Set up a turntable somewhere without reflective surfaces around it, that would be a good dispersion demo, spin it like a Leslie cabinet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 [quote name='essexbasscat' timestamp='1344430368' post='1764309'] When's the date of the next EABB for this to happen ? [/quote] Give me a chance man I'll have a chat with zero9 as he had an idea for venues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 My original Trace 4x10 (Mk1? - painted, not covered, & with 4 x 50W Celestions- sealed not ported) was my favourite of all the cabs I've ever played through when using my Rickenbackers, in terms of both tone and response. Unfortunately once the discs in my back went carrying it went out of the window; it weighed approx 100lb (originally I could carry it one-handed). I've never used anything else that has sounded remotely as good to my ears using those basses. I've used other cabs that have sounded better with different basses however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted August 8, 2012 Author Share Posted August 8, 2012 I doubt I could get down just to witness the cabinet differences, but what I will say is that nothing 'special' should be set up...at all. When you get to a gig, you put your cab down and get on with it. As long as the same amp, cables and bass are used, by the same person demoing it, then that's enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1344443859' post='1764641'] I doubt I could get down just to witness the cabinet differences, but what I will say is that nothing 'special' should be set up...at all. When you get to a gig, you put your cab down and get on with it. As long as the same amp, cables and bass are used, by the same person demoing it, then that's enough. [/quote] There are so many factors when doing this. When a friend tried my Compact, he thought it sucked big time. He prefers more of a full range rig and runs his amp pretty much flat. I always eq heavily, so get very different results. Plus, some basses work with some amps/cabs and not others. And then there's the sonics of the band you play in, etc etc..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlungerModerno Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1344443859' post='1764641'] I doubt I could get down just to witness the cabinet differences, but what I will say is that nothing 'special' should be set up...at all. When you get to a gig, you put your cab down and get on with it. As long as the same amp, cables and bass are used, by the same person demoing it, then that's enough. [/quote] Definately good enough for an individual - but tests like those aren't even single blind... (I know which cab is which). Not awful but not enough for broad comparisons. What would be the best model? I'd start with all of them flat with the same amp, SPL approximately equal. Maybe have an attempt at matching using the EQ... if a cab has a tweeter, switch it off to better compare with the tweeterless cabs etc. Definitely would be best to be 'blind' for the subjective tone tests... facing away from the amps at a fair distance to not know which cab it's coming from. For the non subjective and the subjective parts the room matters a lot. A very treated room is probably asking too much but any room that isn't bare concrete and steel should work ok... I don't really know. Best of luck with the experiment. I'd be interested to see how it was done, and how it works out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 If you're going to try to do an actually useful and representative scientific test then you need to make it as much like a gig as possible, with all the interesting acoustics, noisy bandmates, variable audience, etc. I've thought about this stuff a lot and have yet to think of a better way to honestly test a cab for yourself than to play some gigs with it. It's nice that people want to understand what's going on and take an analytical approach to bass cab performance (it's how I ended up doing what I do) but it is incredibly complicated and to get a test scenario that produces valid and realistic results would be nigh on impossible. Anyway, who cares whether a panel of other bassists say that cab X is better according to their tests if cab Y works better for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 [quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1344465122' post='1765162'] If you're going to try to do an actually useful and representative scientific test then you need to make it as much like a gig as possible, with all the interesting acoustics, noisy bandmates, variable audience, etc. [/quote] No bandmates, audience of the same half dozen mates, fiddling with acoustics is all of the point of my set. Is my music science? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlungerModerno Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1344472073' post='1765249'] No bandmates, audience of the same half dozen mates, fiddling with acoustics is all of the point of my set. Is my music science? [/quote] Experimental is what I'd call it. saying 'one two' in surround sound with vocal effects and playings arpeggios can get real boring after a while though. Live 12 minute Eq. solo with a sampled bass loop isn't traditional either IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1344443859' post='1764641'] I doubt I could get down just to witness the cabinet differences, but what I will say is that nothing 'special' should be set up...at all. When you get to a gig, you put your cab down and get on with it. As long as the same amp, cables and bass are used, by the same person demoing it, then that's enough. [/quote] This is pretty much it. We can't go down the real life scenario route (far too much to organise). So here's the first few points that I think should be observed: - Blind testing : Only the people who supplied the amps/cabs should know which cabs are being tested and they should not be able to participate in voting in anything other than a token vote (so it won't be counted) - The same amp should be used through a multitude of cabs (where the cab is able to handle the amp of course). On the same settings. - Real life SPL should be measured at various points in the room - Perceived SPL should be voted on at various points in the room - Votes on tone - Votes on perceived size of rig - Votes on perceived configuration - Votes on overall "rating" / quality Any comments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 [quote name='charic' timestamp='1344497643' post='1765319'] - The same amp should be used through a multitude of cabs (where the cab is able to handle the amp of course). On the same settings. [/quote] All this would prove is what that particular amp sounds like though a particular cab. A different amp (or different settings) may produce very different results. Where flat eq might sound great through one cab, another might need to be heavily eq-d but may give more preferable results once you've done so. +1 to the band testing. I've played loads of rigs that have sounded great until I get them in a band situation and vice versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 [quote name='4000' timestamp='1344499581' post='1765350'] All this would prove is what that particular amp sounds like though a particular cab. A different amp (or different settings) may produce very different results. Where flat eq might sound great through one cab, another might need to be heavily eq-d but may give more preferable results once you've done so. +1 to the band testing. I've played loads of rigs that have sounded great until I get them in a band situation and vice versa. [/quote] That's why we use more than one amp I doubt band testing is really going to happen as it is a [b]LOT[/b] more to organise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlungerModerno Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 [quote name='charic' timestamp='1344499702' post='1765352'] That's why we use more than one amp I doubt band testing is really going to happen as it is a [b]LOT[/b] more to organise [/quote] The scale would get out of hand if you tried a band sim with actual bands. You could do it with a few genres with a recording (rig up a PA with a few recordings and see how each cab's tones fit) but I doubt several bands could sacrifice a day for it. It's asking a lot more than getting bassists to do a shootout with cabs. If there was a way to compare frequency response, tone flat, and tone in a few 'sweet spots' perhaps selected by the cab's owner... as well as off axis response, weight, 'headroom' (Don't ask me how to measure it safely )... etc. etc. That info alone would be good to have. It's interesting but I think you have to establish priorities to make appropriate compromises and get the most out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 We have to have sufficient interest as well, the last EABB flopped and I had to hold a hat out (to which people responded greatly, but made me feel like crap)... I really don't want that to happen again. Great ideas although it's the line between theoretical and real world that needs to be blurred a bit more IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlungerModerno Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 [quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1344465122' post='1765162'] If you're going to try to do an actually useful and representative scientific test then you need to make it as much like a gig as possible, with all the interesting acoustics, noisy bandmates, variable audience, etc. I've thought about this stuff a lot and have yet to think of a better way to honestly test a cab for yourself than to play some gigs with it. It's nice that people want to understand what's going on and take an analytical approach to bass cab performance (it's how I ended up doing what I do) but it is incredibly complicated and to get a test scenario that produces valid and realistic results would be nigh on impossible. Anyway, who cares whether a panel of other bassists say that cab X is better according to their tests if cab Y works better for you? [/quote] I think any test that includes 'tone' or other subjective measures will fail to establish a 'best cab' for everyone, and that's probably not a bad thing. I agree a representative and non-biased test is hard to do. However I think by eliminating most of the biases (Voters for subjective bits won't know which is which . . . or how much they cost) you make a better test than someone playing through two different rigs, as even on the same night, they are not even single blind. How well the test reflects the reality of a gigging rig greatly effects it's appropriateness. I can't see an obvious and convenient compromise. I'd say for the purpose of these tests one might be best off to mainly speculate on the group performance aspect - or maybe derive it (I know, but think of the alternatives) from how well it sounds all around the room, how clear certain frequencies sound, and of course how well it 'cuts' at a controlled volume through a dense recording with various heads/basses. Now I'm just creating issues ain't I? This is not easy to even think, let alone do... so many variables! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 [quote name='4000' timestamp='1344499581' post='1765350'] All this would prove is what that particular amp sounds like though a particular cab. A different amp (or different settings) may produce very different results. Where flat eq might sound great through one cab, another might need to be heavily eq-d but may give more preferable results once you've done so. +1 to the band testing. I've played loads of rigs that have sounded great until I get them in a band situation and vice versa. [/quote] Aha! Well you did say "the same amp". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 [quote name='PlungerModerno' timestamp='1344503074' post='1765429'] This is not easy to even think, let alone do... so many variables! [/quote] Yep, this is the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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