WEM Dominator MK1 Bass Amp?

[nick]

Hello All,
Just purchased a Dominator MK1 bass amp top off ebay. Don't really know anything about these amps, so it's a bit of a gamble! I love valve sound, & fancied a change from my usual Trace.

Does anybody know anything about this amp, or had any experience of it?
Would be grateful for any info at all.
Hope I haven't bought a lemon

Many thanks

[Hamster]

[quote name='nick' post='19334' date='Jun 17 2007, 09:59 PM']Hello All,
Just purchased a Dominator MK1 bass amp top off ebay. Don't really know anything about these amps, so it's a bit of a gamble! I love valve sound, & fancied a change from my usual Trace.

Does anybody know anything about this amp, or had any experience of it?
Would be grateful for any info at all.
Hope I haven't bought a lemon

Many thanks[/quote]

No personal knowledge, but a buddy of mine had one and quite liked it. He used this shop [url="http://www.amps-n-bits.com/"]http://www.amps-n-bits.com/[/url] for spares/repairs and advice.

Hamster

[nick]

[quote name='Hamster' post='19338' date='Jun 17 2007, 10:06 PM']No personal knowledge, but a buddy of mine had one and quite liked it. He used this shop [url="http://www.amps-n-bits.com/"]http://www.amps-n-bits.com/[/url] for spares/repairs and advice.

Hamster[/quote]

Thanks for the link
Nick

[bass_ferret]

Ask Oxblood - our resident valve expert.

[Oxblood]

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='19368' date='Jun 17 2007, 10:56 PM']Ask Oxblood - our resident valve expert.[/quote]
Oh cripes, I've become an expert!

Anyhoo, here's what I know, FWIW. If it's definitely a Dominator Mk 1, you're looking at (now don't die of shock) a stonking FIFTEEN WATTS of earth-shaking bass!!

However, there were many models of the Dominator, so who knows, maybe it isn't a Mk 1. I think the most powerful valve version was 50 Watts. They did a 100 Watt solid state one as well.

Can you post some pics showing the insides? I love a good bit of valve porn.

[mhuk]

Is it like a hifi valve amp, in that 1 watt from a valve is worth 3 from a solid state amp?

[Oxblood]

[quote name='mhuk' post='19383' date='Jun 17 2007, 11:21 PM']Is it like a hifi valve amp, in that 1 watt from a valve is worth 3 from a solid state amp?[/quote]
The best way I can answer that one is to refer you back to an answer I gave when we wuz called BassTalk. Many thanks to [b]paul,the[/b] for rescuing this from the mists of time and including it in one of his own posts:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?s=&showtopic=294&view=findpost&p=2957"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?s=&sho...post&p=2957[/url]

[paul, the]

I was thinking of bidding on that - 157 right?

People seem to like them more for guitar than bass, but it's the same with a lot of valve bass amps (eg bassman).

I bet it's great though. There's a head on ebay at the mo' which I might go for as I have a 16 ohm cab.


[quote name='paul, the' post='18681' date='Jun 16 2007, 04:12 AM']Does anyone have any thoughts on WEM gear? I've seen the dominator head - it's only 20 watts so it could be quite nice at home.[/quote]

[quote name='andy67' post='18781' date='Jun 16 2007, 01:16 PM']everything I have experienced and discussed with others relating to the dominator is - incredibly awesome! fantastic valve heads/amps that are far louder than their 20 watt rating....[/quote]

[Oxblood]

Watkins/WEM gear is indeed legendary, and deservedly so. Charlie Watkins was a very forward thinking designer, who came up with ideas that were years ahead of the game. He was especially instrumental in developing the concept of using PA to amplify the [i]whole band[/i] and balance the overall sound. In 1963 he designed the [b][i]FR-30[/i][/b]:



A portable mixer/amp for PA use. His fellows in the company thought it was a ridiculous idea. Back then, nobody could see why a pop group would want to feed several sound sources to a master mixing desk and a Public Address system. PA, such as it was, consisted of small speakers of limited frequency range and was only used for vocals! So the FR-30 was shelved until 1966, when it re-emerged as the [b][i]Audiomaster[/i][/b]. Very soon after, pretty much every amp manufacturer was producing multi-channel mixer-amps.

WEM is still with us! These days they concentrate on amplifiers and MIDI controllers for Accordion players, and the company is still run by Charlie Watkins. For more information, go to [url="http://www.wemwatkins.co.uk"]www.wemwatkins.co.uk[/url], visit the history page and try not to bruise your jaw as it hits the floor.

Edited June 18, 2007 by Oxblood

[nick]

[quote name='Oxblood' post='19374' date='Jun 17 2007, 11:09 PM']Oh cripes, I've become an expert!

Anyhoo, here's what I know, FWIW. If it's definitely a Dominator Mk 1, you're looking at (now don't die of shock) a stonking FIFTEEN WATTS of earth-shaking bass!!

However, there were many models of the Dominator, so who knows, maybe it isn't a Mk 1. I think the most powerful valve version was 50 Watts. They did a 100 Watt solid state one as well.

Can you post some pics showing the insides? I love a good bit of valve porn. [/quote]

Many thanks for the info Oxblood, much appreciated.
Was advertised as MK1 on Ebay. I'll have to see if 15w will be loud enough!
Having said that, I'm not in a heavy metal band, or anything similar, & AC30's are considerably louder than what you'd expect for a 30w amp. Guess I will find out.
Paid £66 for it, which seems cheap to me(?), condition described as not perfect cosmetically, but working OK.
Will post some photos of guts, as soon as I receive it.

Now all I've got to find is a suitable cab, was thinking of 1x15, or something that will fit in a car boot.

Cheers
Nick

[Oxblood]

This is exciting!

If it's got a couple of EL34s in it, then it's the 50 Watt version and will kick a reasonable bit of ass. Otherwise, you may have just bagged yourself the world's nicest practice amp. Deep retro cred, though, whatever it is.

[nick]

[quote name='Oxblood' post='19558' date='Jun 18 2007, 12:27 PM']This is exciting!

If it's got a couple of EL34s in it, then it's the 50 Watt version and will kick a reasonable bit of ass. Otherwise, you may have just bagged yourself the world's nicest practice amp. Deep retro cred, though, whatever it is.[/quote]

According to description it had (I think) 4 x EL34's, & 3 x ECC83's - or that could be the other way round!

Should get it before end of the week, will let you know.
Can't wait, make a nice change from my Trace.
Just hope it's going to be loud enough for rehearsal.

Thanks again for the info Oxblood, much appreciated
Nick

[Oxblood]

[quote name='nick' post='19677' date='Jun 18 2007, 03:31 PM']According to description it had (I think) 4 x EL34's, & 3 x ECC83's - or that could be the other way round!

Should get it before end of the week, will let you know.
Can't wait, make a nice change from my Trace.
Just hope it's going to be loud enough for rehearsal.

Thanks again for the info Oxblood, much appreciated
Nick[/quote]

[i][b]FOUR[/b][/i] EL34s? That's 100 Watts, mate. Doesn't sound like it's a Dominator (I'm pretty sure they never did a 100Watt valve one), but you never know. You could be on a winner, here.

[Musky]

I've just been looking at SteveRussel's WEM pages, and it sounds like this might be an ER30 - 4 x EL84, 3 x ECC83.

[url="http://www.vintagehofner.co.uk/britamps/watkins/er30.html"]http://www.vintagehofner.co.uk/britamps/watkins/er30.html[/url]

[nick]

[quote name='Oxblood' post='19682' date='Jun 18 2007, 03:36 PM'][i][b]FOUR[/b][/i] EL34s? That's 100 Watts, mate. Doesn't sound like it's a Dominator (I'm pretty sure they never did a 100Watt valve one), but you never know. You could be on a winner, here.[/quote]

Apologies, it only has [b]two[/b] EL34's. Guess in all my excitement......
Sorry about that, feel a bit of a dick now!

[Oxblood]

[quote name='nick' post='19816' date='Jun 18 2007, 07:00 PM']Apologies, it only has [b]two[/b] EL34's. Guess in all my excitement......[/quote]
Still 50 Watts is not to be sniffed at. With efficient speakers you can deafen people with 50 Watts. Time to build a BFM Omni 10 !

[quote name='nick' post='19816' date='Jun 18 2007, 07:00 PM']...feel a bit of a dick now![/quote]
OK, if you insist...

Oh, I see what you meant. Ooops.

[nick]

Finally got my amp. Some photos (not the best I'm afraid) here:

[url="http://www.flickr.com/photos/9336149@N08/614729274/"]http://www.flickr.com/photos/9336149@N08/614729274/[/url]
[url="http://www.flickr.com/photos/9336149@N08/614729326/"]http://www.flickr.com/photos/9336149@N08/614729326/[/url]
[url="http://www.flickr.com/photos/9336149@N08/614729780/"]http://www.flickr.com/photos/9336149@N08/614729780/[/url]
[url="http://www.flickr.com/photos/9336149@N08/614729610/"]http://www.flickr.com/photos/9336149@N08/614729610/[/url]

Cosmetically, it's not as bad as I expected. Just really needs a good clean, some sticky residue on front fascia, scuffed corners,..but nothing too major.

I haven't yet got a cab, but I wired it up to 15" inside my Trace Elliot 150w combo to test. Crikey, it seems incredibly loud!
Lovely warm growl to it, just the sound I've been after, & trying to get with various driver pedals. The bass & treble controls on both channels do actually alter sound quite a bit - variety of different tones possible, from 'dubby' to 'clanky'. However treble boost switch doesn't actually seem to do anything, at least to my ears - no problem.
Valves inside are old (dusty) Mullards: 2 x EL34's & 3 x ECC83'S

Only thing...is that it has some kind of earth problem. Whereby, hum goes when bridge or anything else earthed on guitar is touched, etc...(?)
Also, mains lead & speaker cable are fixed. Was considering putting IEC connector & jack socket on back, along with corner protectors. Though on the other hand; I quite like keeping things original, especially if it is a rarity - not sure yet(?)

Thanks Oxblood for all the info - you're a star!

Very happy with this find. ^_^

[obbm]

[quote name='nick' post='22779' date='Jun 24 2007, 10:05 PM']Finally got my amp. Some photos (not the best I'm afraid) here:

[url="http://www.flickr.com/photos/9336149@N08/614729274/"]http://www.flickr.com/photos/9336149@N08/614729274/[/url]
[url="http://www.flickr.com/photos/9336149@N08/614729326/"]http://www.flickr.com/photos/9336149@N08/614729326/[/url]
[url="http://www.flickr.com/photos/9336149@N08/614729780/"]http://www.flickr.com/photos/9336149@N08/614729780/[/url]
[url="http://www.flickr.com/photos/9336149@N08/614729610/"]http://www.flickr.com/photos/9336149@N08/614729610/[/url]

Cosmetically, it's not as bad as I expected. Just really needs a good clean, some sticky residue on front fascia, scuffed corners,..but nothing too major.

I haven't yet got a cab, but I wired it up to 15" inside my Trace Elliot 150w combo to test. Crikey, it seems incredibly loud!
Lovely warm growl to it, just the sound I've been after, & trying to get with various driver pedals. The bass & treble controls on both channels do actually alter sound quite a bit - variety of different tones possible, from 'dubby' to 'clanky'. However treble boost switch doesn't actually seem to do anything, at least to my ears - no problem.
Valves inside are old (dusty) Mullards: 2 x EL34's & 3 x ECC83'S

Only thing...is that it has some kind of earth problem. Whereby, hum goes when bridge or anything else earthed on guitar is touched, etc...(?)
Also, mains lead & speaker cable are fixed. Was considering putting IEC connector & jack socket on back, along with corner protectors. Though on the other hand; I quite like keeping things original, especially if it is a rarity - not sure yet(?)

Thanks Oxblood for all the info - you're a star!

Very happy with this find. ^_^[/quote]

Nice bit of history. Those output valves look like EL84s not EL34s. That would give the amp an output of around 15-17 watts.

[nick]

[quote name='obbm' post='22782' date='Jun 24 2007, 10:19 PM']Nice bit of history. Those output valves look like EL84s not EL34s. That would give the amp an output of around 15-17 watts.[/quote]

If it is 15watts - it's a loud 15watts!
Easily enough for rehearsal level (for my band at least).
I will take the back off again & recheck valves, just out of interest - got to work out why it is humming anyway!
Thanks
Nick

[obbm]

If you ever get the chance read [url="http://www.mofoster.com/books/index.html"]this[/url]



To quote Mo, "[i]Around 1960 my school band, The Tradewinds, upgraded its back line of little 5 watt amplifiers with the purchase of a wedge-shaped, blue and white, 17 watt, 4-input, Watkins Dominator amplifier which, at £38/10/-, we could just afford between us. But the band was divided by the prospect of such awesome power: did we really need 17 watts?".[/i]


The Dominator used 2 x EL84. The Vox AC30s used 4 x EL84 to get 30-watts and they are a loud 30-watts.

[Oxblood]

By jingo, sir, that does look like it's in fine condition. Well done you!

Yes, as OBBM says (and he should know), those are definitely EL84s and this is definitely a Dominator Mk 1. This amp should be brought to the next bash and demonstrated as an object lesson in the law of diminishing return when it comes to piling on the Watts. It's the famous inverse square law - y'know, the one that says that in order to produce twice as much SPL you need four times as much power. As you've heard for yourself, 17 Watts can make a whole lot of of noise - and if you wanted to make twice as much noise, you'd need 68 Watts. Four times louder would require 272 Watts ...and so on.

Anyhow, the easiest way to make this amp really shake the floor will be to hook it up to a seriously efficient speaker+cab combination (hence my earlier suggestion of the Omni 10). That WEM bass cab I PM'd you about will probably be a pretty efficient creature too.

If you want those lovely old Mullards tested, you know where to send them. I bet you they've still got plenty of life left in them yet.

Re. the hum problem: you say it goes away when you touch the metalwork of the bass? That sounds pretty normal to me. The bass is picking up hum from the world around it - especially your body, which is acting like a big moist hum antenna. When you touch the metal of the bass, your body is commoned up to the chassis of the amp, so it can't act as an antenna any more. The hum pickup was there with your previous amp too, but that amp was less sensitive to it. It's more noticable with this amp because valves have a higher input impedance than solid state circuitry, and high impedance inputs are more sensitive to hum and cable noise. If it worries you, though, there's no harm in having the amp's earth continuity checked. Better safe than sorry.

Edited June 25, 2007 by Oxblood

[paul, the]

[quote name='obbm' post='22802' date='Jun 24 2007, 11:20 PM']If you ever get the chance read [url="http://www.mofoster.com/books/index.html"]this[/url]



To quote Mo, "[i]Around 1960 my school band, The Tradewinds, upgraded its back line of little 5 watt amplifiers with the purchase of a wedge-shaped, blue and white, 17 watt, 4-input, Watkins Dominator amplifier which, at £38/10/-, we could just afford between us. But the band was divided by the prospect of such awesome power: did we really need 17 watts?".[/i]
The Dominator used 2 x EL84. The Vox AC30s used 4 x EL84 to get 30-watts and they are a loud 30-watts.[/quote]


- to better days.

[Hamster]

[quote name='obbm' post='22802' date='Jun 24 2007, 11:20 PM']If you ever get the chance read [url="http://www.mofoster.com/books/index.html"]this[/url]



To quote Mo, "[i]Around 1960 my school band, The Tradewinds, upgraded its back line of little 5 watt amplifiers with the purchase of a wedge-shaped, blue and white, 17 watt, 4-input, Watkins Dominator amplifier which, at £38/10/-, we could just afford between us. But the band was divided by the prospect of such awesome power: did we really need 17 watts?".[/i]
The Dominator used 2 x EL84. The Vox AC30s used 4 x EL84 to get 30-watts and they are a loud 30-watts.[/quote]


It should be compulsory reading for all guitarists! - I'll contact the MU!

Hamster

[nick]

[quote name='Oxblood' post='22821' date='Jun 25 2007, 01:16 AM']Anyhow, the easiest way to make this amp really shake the floor will be to hook it up to a seriously efficient speaker+cab combination (hence my earlier suggestion of the Omni 10). That WEM bass cab I PM'd you about will probably be a pretty efficient creature too.

If you want those lovely old Mullards tested, you know where to send them. I bet you they've still got plenty of life left in them yet.

Re. the hum problem: you say it goes away when you touch the metalwork of the bass? That sounds pretty normal to me. The bass is picking up hum from the world around it - especially your body, which is acting like a big moist hum antenna. When you touch the metal of the bass, your body is commoned up to the chassis of the amp, so it can't act as an antenna any more. The hum pickup was there with your previous amp too, but that amp was less sensitive to it. It's more noticable with this amp because valves have a higher input impedance than solid state circuitry, and high impedance inputs are more sensitive to hum and cable noise. If it worries you, though, there's no harm in having the amp's earth continuity checked. Better safe than sorry.[/quote]

Thanks again Oxblood.
Not too worried now about the hum, adds to the 'Mojo'. My old man's a radio ham/electronics boffin from the days of valve, so he's going to give it once over before I gig it, when I next see him. He couldn't understand what I was worried about!
Hopefully, through some of his contacts he may also be able to source Mullards for me too. Had a one hour anorakesque phone call yesterday extolling the virtues of Mullards, Brimars, Svetlanas.....etc!

Going to think about cab. Quite fancied an "18, but due to the size will probably go for 2x12 or 1x15 -has to fit in boot of a car. Like a quite a lot of bottom end, would I still get that with 12" speakers(?)

Do you think it's a good idea to replace attached speaker lead & mains cable, or should I keep it original? Not doing any harm as it is I suppose(?)
I would be grateful to hear your learned opinion.
Cheers

[Oxblood]

[quote name='nick' post='22946' date='Jun 25 2007, 12:59 PM']Thanks again Oxblood.
Not too worried now about the hum, adds to the 'Mojo'. My old man's a radio ham/electronics boffin from the days of valve, so he's going to give it once over before I gig it, when I next see him. He couldn't understand what I was worried about!
Hopefully, through some of his contacts he may also be able to source Mullards for me too. Had a one hour anorakesque phone call yesterday extolling the virtues of Mullards, Brimars, Svetlanas.....etc!

Going to think about cab. Quite fancied an "18, but due to the size will probably go for 2x12 or 1x15 -has to fit in boot of a car. Like a quite a lot of bottom end, would I still get that with 12" speakers(?)

Do you think it's a good idea to replace attached speaker lead & mains cable, or should I keep it original? Not doing any harm as it is I suppose(?)
I would be grateful to hear your learned opinion.
Cheers[/quote]

So your dad's a Radio Ham of some vintage, eh? Well blow me down! What's his call-sign? Next time you see him, ask if he ever got any QSL cards back in the 50s and 60s from a fellow ham called Ron Cumberlidge (call-sign G3CK):

That was my dad. This picture was taken when he was in the Signals Corps during WW2.

If your dad is still active on the air today, he might also have come across my brother Steve (call-sign G7BBF).

[b][i]RADIO AMATEURS - THE ORIGINAL WORLD-WIDE WEB ![/i][/b]

Anyhow.. back to the amp:
If the speaker lead looks fit for its purpose, I'd leave it alone. After all, it only has to transfer 17 Watts. Only replace it if it looks in any way perished, or appears to have been bodged by someone who didn't know what they were doing, Your dad will know when he looks at it.
Same goes for the mains cable. If it just enters the chassis directly through a rubber grommet and has adequate strain relief inside the chassis, you've no problems. If it plugs into the amp via one of those old round 3-pin Bulgin plugs, you should replace it with a modern IEC ("kettle plug") mains connector. Don't worry: this will not be regarded as vandalism of a classic! Bulgin plugs/sockets are not legal any more, on account of being fundamentally unsafe.

All the best to you, Nick - and 73s to your dad.

Edited June 25, 2007 by Oxblood