Not moving Air! Why?

[TimR]

[quote name='Stacker' timestamp='1344199118' post='1761198']


Really? I'm always willing to learn, so why don't you explain where I'm 'completely wrong'?

[url="http://www.homeworkassignmenthelp.com/images/loudspeaker-waveform%201.GIF"]looks like physics to me.[/url]
[/quote]

That gif shows the pressure in a standing wave of a fixed frequency not a dynamic wave containing many frequencies. The peaks and troughs aren't showing the loud and quiet parts either. Sound is a compression wave, not a longitudinal wave. They're showing the high and low pressure areas of the air.

[TimR]

[quote name='Stacker' timestamp='1344199637' post='1761218']
And?
[/quote]

Read and understand everything on that link. You're right it's physics but you're applying it incorrectly.

[Stacker]

Yes, i know that. But where am I #completely wrong'?

[Stacker]

Ok, coupling aside, I'd still stand by my guess that what they OP is experiencing is due to his proximity to his rig. In part.

[TimR]

The only time standing close to your rig is bad is when you have the speaker pointing at your knees. ie a 4x10, a single 15, or a 2x10. As explained in the link, the high frequencies are directional and will have a narrow off axis response. ie the highs and mids will only reach your ears if you stand about 10ft in front of your cab. Tilt your cab up and hey presto the highs and mids are directed to your ears.

The op has stacked 15s he should be able to hear the top one with no issues.

[Mr. Foxen]

Combination of poor dispersion/scooped mids and cancellation from a reflection, usually the ceiling (being a consistent flat place) is what makes rigs hard to hear when close rather than far. Nothing to do with sound waves taking distance to develop, important to understand if you want to avoid it.

[TimR]

[quote name='Stacker' timestamp='1344199471' post='1761209']
come on....
[/quote]

I made my comment at 8:20, you replied an hour and a half later and expect me to reply to it in 5 minutes? I'm not here all day!

Then there is no way you could have read and understood every page on that link in the short time before your next post.

Relax.

There's a lot of myths in the bass world about sound propagation. There are also a lot of myths about 10s, 12s, 15s and 18s etc

Read the link and the other pages properly.

Edited August 5, 2012 by TimR

[bertbass]

What's under the floor your cabs are sitting on?

[OliverBlackman]

I haven't read the barefaced link but having experienced a Aguilar DB751 through a 8x10 on many occasions over the last three years at loud volumes, I always found with it that you couldn't hear how loud it was for the audience unless you are 6-8 feet away.

[TimR]

Again, read the link. You've got 3 problems with an 8x10". Vertical and horizontal interference between each speaker and off axis response from the 10"s.

It's not sound waves travelling at different speeds or taking time to develop.

[mushers]

last night i was under the impression that sound waves took time/distance to devolop looked it up and i was wrong >.< was interesting reading about how low frequencies behave though

[spinynorman]

My Markbass 1x12 sounds the same whether I stand right in front of it, yards away from it or to one side of it. I've never understood why this is, having had all sorts of problems at times with stacked 1x15 + 2x10.

As to whether it moves air, depends on the venue and whether I get the EQ right.

[Lozz196]

[quote name='spinynorman' timestamp='1344249518' post='1761604']
My Markbass 1x12 sounds the same whether I stand right in front of it, yards away from it or to one side of it. I've never understood why this is, having had all sorts of problems at times with stacked 1x15 + 2x10.

As to whether it moves air, depends on the venue and whether I get the EQ right.
[/quote]

The only cabs I`ve had that are like this are Schroeders.

[charic]

[quote name='spinynorman' timestamp='1344249518' post='1761604']
My Markbass 1x12 sounds the same whether I stand right in front of it, yards away from it or to one side of it. I've never understood why this is, having had all sorts of problems at times with stacked 1x15 + 2x10.
[/quote]

Have you tried turning it on?

[TimR]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1344175366' post='1760686']
...
I added a 2x10" Warwick to a 15" trace and got some weird cancelling effects. Mixing manufacturers can have weird effects.
...

[/quote]

So I got rid of the 15" and bought another 2x10" and stack them vertically so there are 4 speakers in a single column. Awesome sound.

[dincz]

[quote name='spinynorman' timestamp='1344249518' post='1761604']
My Markbass 1x12 sounds the same whether I stand right in front of it, yards away from it or to one side of it[/quote]

That could well happen if you don't use a lot of mids and highs.

[lollington]

Skidder, I agree with a previous post- try without your Compressore.

My EBS compressor takes most the low end out of my rig but sits tightly in the mix.

[skidder652003]

[quote name='lollington' timestamp='1344255217' post='1761723']
Skidder, I agree with a previous post- try without your Compressore.

My EBS compressor takes most the low end out of my rig but sits tightly in the mix.
[/quote]

sometimes i cut the compressor (during quieter moments in the set so theres more control over how much pressure i play with) and it doesn't suddenly make the air move - so to speak; so i dont think its that.
Im starting to think that its my position to the speaker, I didnt get the chance to stand out front from the speaker during the sound check, thats not going to happen next time! I will defo move out a bit and see if that makes a difference. I'll still have to play right in front (thats the limitation of no band space in a titchy pub!) of the cabs but if the punters can feel it, thats fine

[discreet]

[quote name='ezbass' timestamp='1344174748' post='1760675']
All of the above, but I want to be childish and talk about baked beans and Brussel sprouts.[/quote]

Yes, I was going to say this should be in the 'Random Relationship Question' thread. But I won't.

[The Dark Lord]

You have an interesting take on what you should be hearing. When you say the "Bell Inn", that sounds like a pub - not a huge stadium stage. So, in my very humble opinion, if you are using your backline as the device through which both the audience and yourself hears your bass playing, then there will be a problem or two. What you hear in the performing area and what the punters in all corners of the bar hear, will be quite different. Bass sound, due to the frequency of the sound waves, doesn't project or travel as well as higher pitched stuff. It is common for the drummer to complain that the bass is too loud, yet it can't be heard high enough in the mix at the back of the bar. Far better for you to balance the sound in different areas. Buy yourself a decent quality wedge monitor. Then play your backline high enough for you to hear yourself in the performing area and also send a DI from your bass amp to the mixing desk. Then, run an aux output from the desk to the wedge monitor.

That way, you can hear yourself via the bass amp on stage, you can get what you need coming through the wedge monitor (I usually have everything, but with my bass and my vocals slightly higher in the mix) ........ and you can adjust the relative bass volume through the front of house PA so that the audience can hear you in a balanced way.

Lots of bands put nothing but the vocals, and maybe a kick drum, through the front of house in a pub. I've never really liked that idea as the sound quality then varies as to where an audience member is standing. Lots of bands compensate for this by being deafeningly loud. Keep it low and manageable where you are - and let the FOH do the work. Simples.

Unfortunately, when we play an instrument in a band, it's not about what we like and how good we sound to ourselves. It's a team sport, we have to fit in with the rest of 'em. And also, we are just like the bottle washers, window cleaners and glass collectors. We're there to do a job.