Blademan_98 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Just to clarify, I get on with my drummer very well After our rehearsal last night, we had a chat about how the band is going etc. We both agree that the new guitarist is very talented but we are not progressing as well as at the start. He made comments about my playing, like it has become more root based 'in the pocket' stuff. We used to be a lot more 'free form' - both knowing what the other will do and playing to it. It made me realise that I have lost my way a little. Although we are a covers band, I usually made my own bass lines (unless they are central to the tune). I seem to have lost that confidence and it is rather confusing. When practicing on my own, I let the music dictate. Now, when I rehearse with the band, I end up sticking with root / 5th and grooving to the beat. Any ideas or advice on how to break free from this durge? Cheers Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Maybe time to go back and learn the original lines to those tunes you have been previously making your own up for? It's always easy to slide back to your comfort zone. Could be there are some bits in those tunes that might give some inspiration? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 [quote name='Blademan_98' timestamp='1344261865' post='1761856'] Just to clarify, I get on with my drummer very well After our rehearsal last night, we had a chat about how the band is going etc. We both agree that the new guitarist is very talented but we are not progressing as well as at the start. He made comments about my playing, like it has become more root based 'in the pocket' stuff. We used to be a lot more 'free form' - both knowing what the other will do and playing to it. It made me realise that I have lost my way a little. Although we are a covers band, I usually made my own bass lines (unless they are central to the tune). I seem to have lost that confidence and it is rather confusing. When practicing on my own, I let the music dictate. Now, when I rehearse with the band, I end up sticking with root / 5th and grooving to the beat. Any ideas or advice on how to break free from this durge? Cheers Brian [/quote] It seems to me like you have found your way, not lost it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurbs Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 I find the more bored I am with playing the song, the more I experiment. Our version of Mustang Sally (when we bother to rehearse it) is over played to death as we are all so bored playing it. Same with Sweet Home. Are you comfortable with the song? Are you comfortable with you place within the band? Are you comfortable that if you cock up when cocking about that it wont matter? Like you, unless the bass line is essential to the song I improvise around the chords just keeping the same feel but play much more than root, 5th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademan_98 Posted August 6, 2012 Author Share Posted August 6, 2012 [quote name='KevB' timestamp='1344262114' post='1761862'] Maybe time to go back and learn the original lines to those tunes you have been previously making your own up for? It's always easy to slide back to your comfort zone. Could be there are some bits in those tunes that might give some inspiration? [/quote] That sounds like a plan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Not sure how this all relates back to the new guitarist ... do you feel that his presence is part of the issue? Like WoT, I can't see anything wrong with playing in the pocket, grooving, and keeping it simple. To me, that's pretty much the definition of good bass playing. I also play in a covers band, and the one thing that really matters to me is making sure that I can replicate any distinctive "hook" in the bassline. Apart from that, I can be as ambitious or as cautious as I like; the only person who'll ever notice or care is me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthurhenry Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Stop rehearsing, stop discussing, just gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 First time I've ever heard "In the pocket" used it an almost negative way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Does busy bass fit in with the new guy? [font=Arial] [/font] You could be taking a back seat because the new guitarist needs more room and you haven't yet worked out what you need to do in order to fit in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademan_98 Posted August 6, 2012 Author Share Posted August 6, 2012 [quote name='Thurbs' timestamp='1344262326' post='1761869'] Are you comfortable with the song? Are you comfortable with you place within the band? Are you comfortable that if you cock up when cocking about that it wont matter? Like you, unless the bass line is essential to the song I improvise around the chords just keeping the same feel but play much more than root, 5th. [/quote] I don't know most of the 'newer' songs (read post 1979!) so I am not that comfortable with them. As for my place in the band, yes I am happy with that. If I make a mistake, no one seems to notice / care? I just keep going and don't stop playing. I enjoy making my own lines, I just seem to have lost that ability in the band situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademan_98 Posted August 6, 2012 Author Share Posted August 6, 2012 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1344262518' post='1761875'] Not sure how this all relates back to the new guitarist ... do you feel that his presence is part of the issue? [/quote] I should have made that a stronger point. With the last guitarist, I did what I felt was right. The new chap gives me a 'WTF' look if I deviate from either the actual line or a root 5th groove. It has knocked my confidence of playing in the band situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademan_98 Posted August 6, 2012 Author Share Posted August 6, 2012 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1344262529' post='1761878'] First time I've ever heard "In the pocket" used it an almost negative way. [/quote] Yeah, it threw me too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurbs Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 [quote name='Blademan_98' timestamp='1344262914' post='1761883'] I should have made that a stronger point. With the last guitarist, I did what I felt was right. The new chap gives me a 'WTF' look if I deviate from either the actual line or a root 5th groove. It has knocked my confidence of playing in the band situation. [/quote]This sounds like the issue... If you are confident of your place in the band then challenge them and see what comes of it. On a related point, I find people who "play it exactly like the cover" are often put off massively by any deviation.... vocals, rhythm or anything which deviates from the script in their head. I just put it down to poor musicianship and move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 [quote name='Thurbs' timestamp='1344263683' post='1761899'] This sounds like the issue... If you are confident of your place in the band then challenge them and see what comes of it. On a related point, I find people who "play it exactly like the cover" are often put off massively by any deviation.... vocals, rhythm or anything which deviates from the script in their head. I just put it down to poor musicianship and move on. [/quote] ^^^ This... You need, perhaps, to chat with the guitarist and sort out where you stand mutually on 'interpretation'. What has to be done then depends somewhat on that chat. Hide any knives or heavy objects, or at least be closer to them than he is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 This is back to the old arguement about whether it should be played note for note exactly as original or variations on a theme. Some guys need the song to be exact because they rely on hearing certain notes or phrases to keep them on track for there own changes within the song. I've always put that down to a little lack of confidence in themselves. They should know the song well enough themselves to allow for minor variations or ad-libs to spice things up a little. Historically I've always gone down the route of ad-lib to a certain degree but retaining the main theme. A sense of freedom within the structure of the song. My current band have the opinion that a song should be copied as it was originally intended and for rehearsals we tend to do that but allow some freedom once the band are fully confident they know the song well enough to allow a little expression at times. It does frustrate me but it does seem to work for this band so i just accept it and enjoy it for what it is. Good fun and a great way to spend time with friends. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Blademan_98' timestamp='1344262914' post='1761883'] ....The new chap gives me a 'WTF' look if I deviate from either the actual line or a root 5th groove.... [/quote] Are you in his band? WTF looks are no use at all. Ask the guy what he means. Get him to use words! On the other hand, are you sure that your [i]busy[/i] playing really fitted the numbers as well as you though? Edited August 6, 2012 by chris_b Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman Steve Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 I know the WTF look well. I played in a Dire Straits tribute band and the drummer would do that whenever things deviated from the records. I could almost feel the laser beams burning into my back. I just ignored the tw@t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 [quote name='KevB' timestamp='1344262114' post='1761862'] Maybe time to go back and learn the original lines to those tunes you have been previously making your own up for? It's always easy to slide back to your comfort zone. Could be there are some bits in those tunes that might give some inspiration? [/quote] Agreed, most decent "classic" songs have something cool or unusual hidden away in the bass line that can provide a good basis for putting your own stamp on things while remaining true to the feel of the song. Alternatively make sure you haven't actually listened to the original version of song you are playing for at least 5 years and compensate by winging it and/or slavishly following the root notes of what the guitarist plays - well seems to be approach of most covers band bassists I see these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 [quote name='Blademan_98' timestamp='1344261865' post='1761856'] Just to clarify, I get on with my drummer very well After our rehearsal last night, we had a chat about how the band is going etc. We both agree that the new guitarist is very talented but we are not progressing as well as at the start. He made comments about my playing, like it has become more root based 'in the pocket' stuff. We used to be a lot more 'free form' - both knowing what the other will do and playing to it. It made me realise that I have lost my way a little. Although we are a covers band, I usually made my own bass lines (unless they are central to the tune). I seem to have lost that confidence and it is rather confusing. When practicing on my own, I let the music dictate. Now, when I rehearse with the band, I end up sticking with root / 5th and grooving to the beat. [size=5][b]Any ideas or advice on how to break free from this durge?[/b][/size] Cheers Brian [/quote] Join a good originals band and explore your inner psyche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Drummers.... can't shoot 'em.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Blademan_98' timestamp='1344262914' post='1761883'] The new chap gives me a 'WTF' look if I deviate from either the actual line or a root 5th groove. It has knocked my confidence of playing in the band situation. [/quote] I'd laugh at this, tbh... unless the guy REALLY has it down, which I would doubt in the majority of cases. But..before you start on a ruck... just consider what he brings to the party... Edited August 6, 2012 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 [quote name='Blademan_98' timestamp='1344262914' post='1761883'] I should have made that a stronger point. With the last guitarist, I did what I felt was right. The new chap gives me a 'WTF' look if I deviate from either the actual line or a root 5th groove. It has knocked my confidence of playing in the band situation. [/quote] He may be confused, not used to more complex bass harmony. HE may be suffering a lack of confidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-soar Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1344285773' post='1762349'] Join a good originals band and explore your inner psyche. [/quote]This is all you need to hear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 You can only play a part that works with the song You both agree that the new guy is very good but he is giving you WTF glances when deviate from the original part. Either the new guy is overly anal about reproducing the exact performance on the record or you need to listen very carefully to what you are playing that causes such a reaction! Personally, I would do the latter before I tackled the guitarist about the former...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 When I first depped with my covers band it was a rigid exercise in getting every note in the right place. I didn't mind that too much as I'm quite a structured and self disciplined sort of chap and it's somthing I'm used to. They'd practice the same song for hours and hours and the boredom would produce even more mistakes. The band 'leader' would get irate and more mistakes would appear. Totally pointless exercise that I'd have walked away from if it wasn't for the money (yep, I'm a musical prostitute but you just KNOW I'm gonna satisfy you... ). They rarely gigged and were always having to get deps in. Eventually, one gig was all deps! We just clicked musically and personality wise. Essential 'hooks' remained but everything else became our interpretation of what the cover should sound like, and I have to say, some of the covers were far better crafted than the originals. Six years down the line, the parent band has long since disappeared, the 'dep band' are still going strong. We probably work harder than we used to, but it's still fun because we get to stretch ourselves as musicians. Egos are left at the door and the removal of that rigid set of constraints has allowed musical growth and gain a nice little following. However, it's not music that I particularly like and it doesn't 'stretch' me as much as I feel I need, so I have another band, play in a duo, play in a trio, continue depping for other bands, help run a plug n play and get some studio work with various artists every couple of months. Perhaps that degree of 'saturation' helps keep me out of the 'rut'... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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