Changing key for the singer

[dincz]

Just wondering how the rest of you approach this. The singer in my band is sometimes obviously straining to reach high notes (and sometimes low notes) but seems to regard getting through a song in the original key as a mark of honour - even if he sounds crap. Have you come up against this attitude?

[Blademan_98]

We usually drop the tune if he can't sing it.........

Changing key is fine by me but other memebrs of the band like to keep things original

[police squad]

if you're playing guitar on, say, an ac/dc number, the last thing you want is to change the key.
The song's are sometimes written around open chords and if you play them any other way, it just doesn't sound right.

me, my opinion, for what it's worth (which isn't a lot these days) is, original key is a must.

[BottomE]

[quote name='dincz' timestamp='1344359783' post='1763347']
Have you come up against this attitude?
[/quote]
Not recently. We often change out of the original key to suit the vox. Thing is, some songs need to be in the original key musically for them to work. Maybe you could all just agree to change key and see if he notices

[flyfisher]

We change the key. We're bad enough without having the singer struggling as well.

[dincz]

Point taken about certain songs not working in other keys/positions - especially for guitar but it can make life more difficult on bass as well. But I find it really odd that the one member of the band who would only benefit from a key change is the only one who's against it.

[Deep Thought]

I used to soldier on in the original key a song was written in (I'm our lead vocalist), but eventually we learned that we all sounded better if I wasn't straining to hit notes. Thus we'll do it as written if it works, and if we can we'll change the key if it doesn't. Several songs got the boot from the set because I couldn't sing them and it wasn't practical to change the key-although having recently started downtuning a semitone, I'm finding some can be reintroduced.

[BigAlonBass]

Detune the whole Band to Eflat without telling him. He'll think his voice has suddenly improved!

[Lozz196]

Just de-tune all of the instruments down a half-step/full-step. The band will sound meatier, and your singer won`t sound like they`re being strangled.

You don`t even have to tell the singer you`re doing it - and they`ll be all happy that they`re getting the "right" notes easier, due to hard work & practice

[Lozz196]

[quote name='BigAlonBass' timestamp='1344361658' post='1763394']
Detune the whole Band to Eflat without telling him. He'll think his voice has suddenly improved!
[/quote]

What evil minds we have

[lettsguitars]

My band (now ex) would refuse to transpose which used to piss me right off. The rest of the band consisted of a bass player and a drummer. The drummer had no issue changing key which i thought was nice of him. But the bass player just couldn't be arsed to learn the song in a different key. He needed to practice more as I could play a song in a diferent key without thinking about it. It's the only way to go if the singer sounds rubbish. Although unless you are a professional outfit and the singer enjoys the challenge then I would say just get on with it.

[rogerstodge]

We've (or they have) changed the key to "no more heroes" so i can't do that lovely open g Burnel intro, we do it in A now.

[obbm]

Never a problem, if we need to change key then we just do it.

The confusion comes when someone plays in different bands who do the same song in different keys

[bremen]

[quote name='obbm' timestamp='1344362829' post='1763430']


The confusion comes when someone plays in different bands who do the same song in different keys
[/quote]

I've been the cause of a few trainwrecks for that reason...

[lojo]

I think this is why we added a 5th string to basses

In my experience doing covers , some songs are fine in most keys and are easily shifted, others are fixed and the singer should not do it if they cant in original key

[arthurhenry]

Majority of songs in one of my bands. Gimme some lovin, summer of '69 and Saw her standing there - all in B. Hotel California in G, Don't stop Believin' in A. Often, it just doesn't sound as good as the original key.

[lowdowner]

not sure what the problem is - I see it as a badge of honour to be able to say 'whatever key you'd like is fine - it's just a different place on the neck' (unlike the guitar player who spends time muttering and moving the cappo around hither and tither trying to find a simpler set of chord shapes - or am I being mean?)

[musophilr]

[quote name='lowdowner' timestamp='1344369018' post='1763623']
not sure what the problem is - I see it as a badge of honour to be able to say 'whatever key you'd like is fine - it's just a different place on the neck' (unlike the guitar player who spends time muttering and moving the cappo around hither and tither trying to find a simpler set of chord shapes - or am I being mean?)
[/quote]

You're being mean. I'm a guitarist who always uses std tuning, and rarely uses a capo. I can play most things in most places. Our band tries the original key, and changes it if the singers need to. I also play keys (a little) ... thankfully the machine has a transpose function

[lowdowner]

Machine?

[JTUK]

Vocals are everything so we go with what the vocals can do ... And he is very capable anyway. Why you would want to hamstring your main focal point?
If the song doesn't then work, then we bin it. .. But then we bin songs that don't work anyway... For whatever reason.

[Dr.Dave]

He carrys on with that caper and he won't be a singer very long.

Tune down - prove to him it sounds better - then change the keys to suit him.

Rod and I share lead vocals near enough 50 50 and , weirdly , he never seems to need change keys and I almost always do. Neither of us are blessed in the vocal dept so we've had to learn to develop and use what we have. He does that quiet talk singing Chris Rea/Knopfler sort of thing and I do a loud Noddy Holderesque yell. Maybe that's why I have to change so many song keys.

[musophilr]

[quote name='lowdowner' timestamp='1344372479' post='1763705']
Machine?
[/quote]

Persactly A Rhodes, Hammond, Steinway etc would be an instrument. My keyboard is a Yamaha DJX, optimised for the PAC LLABESAB people. You have to dig through the menus to find some useable sounds. Switch it off, it forgets everything, and goes back to grunting "Uh Huhhh" or shouting "Come on baby" when you hit a key. I didn't buy it, it's someone else's cast-off, but if you're prepared to search there's some nice musical sounds buried in it.

[BigRedX]

My covers band has a great singer so we never have to change the keys of any of the songs that we do for her.

However we do play a couple of songs that were recorded tuned down a semi-tone in standard tuning so that the guitarists don't have to mess about with retuning or changing guitars.

[mcgraham]

The voice is actually built in a particular way that means it changes configuration at certain points in the singers range to enable them to sing higher (I've blogged about it at www.markjwgraham.co.uk/blog under the engine of the voice series). These parts of the voice are called 'bridges' or 'passages/passagio' as they are passageways from one part of a singers voice to another. It's harder to sing right ON those bridges than to sit the notes of the melody an appropriate distance away from those notes. Even advanced singers find this tough because it's a physical limitation of the instrument - think of it like having to play in A on the guitar or in Bb on the guitar (without the capo). One is remarkably easy, and one is harder (relatively speaking) just because of the way the instrument is built.

In the same way you might choose to change the key of a song on guitar to make it easier to play (e.g. from Bb to A), the same thing can be said for vocals. We need to look at the melody then consider whether a change is necessary to get the best from the singer whilst making it as easy as possible for the singer.

Re: 'badge of honour' doing it in the original key - well, it's often tougher for a reason, so they should feel proud if they can do it... but given that no-one else would notice, and it would 99% of the time sound better in a more optimised key...

[gub]

A lot of the big old bands come down a key these days as they can't get as high as they used to when they were in there prime !
We only do it on paranoide which we do in d but it's such a simple song anyway that it makes no odds to me on this one , it's not my favourite thing to do though especially if it's a complicated bass line and I already play it in original key !