RichZbaraski Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 So, I may have the opportunity to buy a 1963 Fender Jazz bass for £800! Crazy right?! Reason is, is that it really needs a refinish and the markings on the neck have been sanded off swell as the logo (ugly red varnish refinish) though the markings are still on the neck plate and majority of the hardware is original. My question is, refinished in OLY white with a matching headstock, how much do think this will be worth? I've seen a unoriginal refinished 63 jazz bass go for around £2,750 but I can't be sure Sorry if this is violating any rules! rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franzbassist Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Hi Rich I would tread very carefully if I were you. If a deal sounds to good to be true.... Cheers Gareth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackers Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 personally, I wouldn't touch that with a barge pole. Any story about the neck stamp and decal being "sanded off" is suspect at best, and total bull at worst. Have you checked for a date stamp on the pots and things like that? My gut feeling is that you would be buying a cheap bass with some eBay vintage looking hardware on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Extremely dubious... If i was the seller id be looking at the price of these go on the Bay... And anyone could see they dont go for £800!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 [quote name='RichZbaraski' timestamp='1344464499' post='1765145'] So, I may have the opportunity to buy a 1963 Fender Jazz bass for £800! Crazy right?! Reason is, is that it really needs a refinish and the markings on the neck have been sanded off swell as the logo (ugly red varnish refinish) though the markings are still on the neck plate and majority of the hardware is original. My question is, refinished in OLY white with a matching headstock, how much do think this will be worth? I've seen a unoriginal refinished 63 jazz bass go for around £2,750 but I can't be sure Sorry if this is violating any rules! rich [/quote] sorry for being an idiot... but why does it matter what it will be worth? You will never be able to prove more than hearsay what it is or isn't- it may be a fender- it may not be. So that given- what matters is what the thing is like to play, is it a amazing bass? is it worth 800 or more even now? If it is then why not get it and get something special at a good price. But it would be fraudulent to buy, refinish and sell as an original and you don't have a clue- so the question is- if I got this, and refinished it would Bass + refinish < sale price if I wanted to move it on? For info there was a jazz that a guy sold on here last year that he sold as a bitsa with possibly some old fender parts on it. Dead honest, and it looked like it possibly was real old parts- but again couldn't prove more than he had a good jazz bass. I think it went for £550 or so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 Don't! There are too many warning lights flashing for this one to be a safe buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted August 8, 2012 Share Posted August 8, 2012 (edited) [quote name='RichZbaraski' timestamp='1344464499' post='1765145'] So, I may have the opportunity to buy a 1963 Fender Jazz bass for £800! Crazy right?! [/quote] Correct - an actual for certain 1963 Jazz would not be £800. That would be crazy. Edited August 8, 2012 by EssentialTension Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1344466478' post='1765190'] sorry for being an idiot... but why does it matter what it will be worth? You will never be able to prove more than hearsay what it is or isn't- it may be a fender- it may not be. So that given- what matters is what the thing is like to play, is it a amazing bass? is it worth 800 or more even now? If it is then why not get it and get something special at a good price. But it would be fraudulent to buy, refinish and sell as an original and you don't have a clue- so the question is- if I got this, and refinished it would Bass + refinish < sale price if I wanted to move it on? [b]For info there was a jazz that a guy sold on here last year that he sold as a bitsa with possibly some old fender parts on it. Dead honest, and it looked like it possibly was real old parts- but again couldn't prove more than he had a good jazz bass. I think it went for £550 or so[/b] [/quote] +1 (again ) Re the last part : This reminds me about a respected member of our community and Fender expert who put together a "replica" right down to authentic looking neck stamps and pencilled in info (oh and copies of the documents and case candy from a genuine vintage Fender... all for his own amusement you understand) who sold it on for about £800 if I recall - anyway it was a good amount for a bitsa. He was up front the whole time about it being a replica but bragged that it was as good a copy as you could get. So it's swings and roundabouts - sell a possible genuine bass but minus the provenance - £550, build a bitsa replica and tell everyone it's fake and get 800 bucks for it. The vintage Fender market is a strange beastie, it's not it's worth as an instrument that counts rather than it's value as an asset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichZbaraski Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 Ok, maybe I should've given a back story of some sort! It's being sold to me by a family friend whom the family in question have had the bass for well over 30 years. There's even pictures before and after the 80's refinish. I've used my own personal pre-cbs fender's as reference and what is supposedly original and left on the bass checks out. The reason I'm getting it for £800 is because of "mates rates" and the fact that £800 is still a lot of money to him. Trust me, it's just a somewhat abused 63 jazz. The refinish is a varnish over the headstock and body thats why there's no logo and the neck has been completely sanded down. However, IT IS a 63 jazz bass! What I want to do is basically restore it to its former glory. It was olympic white with matching headstock so thats why I want to refinish it in that! The plan is to fix it up and sell it on as the instrument it should be, I was just wondering if i'd be wasting my time, effort and money doing this as i've always had trouble giving a value to completely refinished vintage guitars! Rich Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackers Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 ok, well, if you are doing this entirely for the resale value, then I would say don't bother, because you are unlikely to get serious money for a refin without the original headstock decal and no neck stamp. However, if you are doing it because you want to restore it and keep it as an instrument then go for it, because I'm sure it will be a fantastic bass once you are done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanovw Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) Is it this the bass you have been offered? [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/180935-what-year-is-this-jazz-bass/page__p__1722009__hl__63%20jazz__fromsearch__1#entry1722009"]http://basschat.co.u..._1#entry1722009[/url] If so, I have seen it. Edited August 9, 2012 by deanovw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stacker Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1344466478' post='1765190'] sorry for being an idiot... but why does it matter what it will be worth? You will never be able to prove more than hearsay what it is or isn't- it may be a fender- it may not be. So that given- what matters is what the thing is like to play, is it a amazing bass? is it worth 800 or more even now? If it is then why not get it and get something special at a good price. But it would be fraudulent to buy, refinish and sell as an original and you don't have a clue- so the question is- if I got this, and refinished it would Bass + refinish < sale price if I wanted to move it on? For info there was a jazz that a guy sold on here last year that he sold as a bitsa with possibly some old fender parts on it. Dead honest, and it looked like it possibly was real old parts- but again couldn't prove more than he had a good jazz bass. I think it went for £550 or so [/quote] Proving a Fender is '60s Fender is getting harder and harder, these days, even if the pups n pots seem to be correct. I'd reckon a '63 to go for upwards of £5k and even then basses from that era seems to have components altered/replaced. Also, since the emergence of Nash, etc, a good repairman (or luthier) can knock up a vintage piece if he takes his time. Now, is this the bass Luke is talking about or is it a genuine '60-'61 Fender Jazz Bass?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFingers Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 [quote name='deanovw' timestamp='1344492494' post='1765284'] Is it this the bass you have been offered? [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/180935-what-year-is-this-jazz-bass/page__p__1722009__hl__63%20jazz__fromsearch__1#entry1722009"]http://basschat.co.u..._1#entry1722009[/url] If so, I have seen it. [/quote] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11Y987Uf1wY Why? Neck: wrong veneer, wrong spacing of the dots (front and sides), wrong headstockshape, wrong tuners (and no print from the bigger, original kluson 538 reverse, so the tuners are original to the neck), no dowel holes in headstock and heel -> NOT FENDER Body: no holes for the thumbrest, japanese Alpha pots (instead of Stackpole with ceramic cap), wrong bridge, wrong shielding plate in the cavity,... And this is by just looking at them while eating my breakfast, if I look closer, then I'll find more, but this is convincing enough. It's not a fender, it's a Tokai from the eighties! http://www.guitarmart.co.uk/advert/G14364 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichZbaraski Posted August 9, 2012 Author Share Posted August 9, 2012 No, but that is a very similar bass! This one is a very dark finish. I remember seeing that one on the bay. Hmmmm, my instinct says no. So perhaps i'll leave it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 [quote name='RichZbaraski' timestamp='1344511539' post='1765622'] No, but that is a very similar bass! This one is a very dark finish. I remember seeing that one on the bay. Hmmmm, my instinct says no. So perhaps i'll leave it! [/quote] but the early fenders were supposed to be good. For doing up to sell it'd not worth it maybe, but as a good bass to... you know, play... maybe? Let me put it this way, if it were my family I would be going around for a play and possibly getting a great bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrFingers Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 (edited) Do you have a picture of it? Edited August 9, 2012 by MrFingers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noelk27 Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 And it's not that we, on BC, are overly cynical, but proving that a vintage Fender is indeed a vintage Fender is an essential in establishing its value. Too many unanswered questions or dubious connections and the buying public will walk away. As for what you'd spend getting it put right, you'd be looking at circa £500 for refinishing the body and neck. Assuming there are other issues to be resolved - such as a refret - the costs soon mount up. My '66, taking the purchase price and refurbishment/refinishing, cost me circa £1,800 all in. Realistically, mine might be capable of achieving £2,000 if sold. Not exactly what you'd call a massive profit margin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1344512839' post='1765657'] ....the early fenders were supposed to be good.... [/quote] They were...... in comparison to what came next, the CBS Fenders, but better than a current Fender? That's a different discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted August 9, 2012 Share Posted August 9, 2012 [quote name='RichZbaraski' timestamp='1344464499' post='1765145'] So, I may have the opportunity to buy a 1963 Fender Jazz bass for £800! Crazy right?! Reason is, is that it really needs a refinish and the markings on the neck have been sanded off swell as the logo (ugly red varnish refinish) though the markings are still on the neck plate and majority of the hardware is original. My question is, refinished in OLY white with a matching headstock, how much do think this will be worth? I've seen a unoriginal refinished 63 jazz bass go for around £2,750 but I can't be sure Sorry if this is violating any rules! rich [/quote] Sorry, I can't find the other 1962 questions... where are they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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