PA Survey (mainly for the big functions bands)

[john_the_bass]

i'm sure this has been covered before, but in the 20 pages that come up when I search for "PA", I can't find anything.
It's not just for the functions or covers bands, but it's aimed really at those that own their own fairly big systems for big rooms and functions of up to 300 or 400 people. If you've got two minutes, can you answer the below questions?

1) do you own your own PA? If "NO" go to question 5

2) if Yes, what size is it (eg how many watts and how many components)

3) do you transport it to gigs yourself or do you get your roadies/engineer to load it into the van and set it up before/as you get to the venue?

4) do you have your own soundman?

5) if "NO" to Q1, do you hire a PA yourselves?

5) if "YES" to the above, what do you pay for an engineered PA of a suitable size for the venue you're booked for and what does that cost? Does it include lights?

6) again for the hirers, do you build the cost of hiring the PA into what you charge your client. Do you pay roadies out of that as well?


I think that's it, I'm interested to know what others do as we have a great big almost 9k PA and I think we'll need a transit van to move it around in - which we don't have. I'm wondering if it's worth us selling our PA (obviously it's a joint decision, as yet undiscussed!) and hiring them for future big gigs. we have all the kit to do the pubs, but the big stuff is potentially sweat making, especially in the summer pre-gig, and who wants to be soaking and stinky before you've even played a note.

[acidbass]

1. No

5a. Yes

5b. Depends on the size of the venue, but in a 400 capacity venue we normally pay £3-400. We do however hire from a professional live sound company who supply nothing but the best - normally Turbosound but we've also had Dynacord, high end Mackie, HK Audio and the like. Professional standard lights normally run us around £1-200, that includes those little rotating head lights, strobes, hazers, spots etc. Both systems include operators and roadies.

6. We supply venues with a technical specification of what the band needs to play the gig, so that they can source the equipment locally. In this case, we don't include the cost of PA. We also let the venue know that we can supply the full sound and lights at an additional cost, so it's really up to them which they prefer. Normally they pay us extra to book and bring our own, it's just less hassle for the promoter.

I honestly can't imagine my band owning and operating PA and lights. Being in an 8 piece band, it's hard enough work lugging the backline around!

[birdy]

1) Yes

2) Peavey P2600 for bass bins, Peavey P1500 for tops. EV 18" subs, EV 15" tops.

3) We transport ourselves and ALL of the gear for a gig in two ford focus estates. This is 4 people, a drum kit, the PA, basses, guitars, backline and lighting!!

4) No as we are a 4 piece we do it ourselves

We have used this for many venues up to 3-400 people and always been loud enough. We work on the principle that we want to be 'loud' on the dance floor but quiet enough at the rear of the room so that people can talk with no problem.

Steve

[john_the_bass]

cheers guys, keep them coming - i noticed i put two "5s" in the original survey. oh well.
I think it may be worth talking to a local pa company about a discount for regular stuff.

[Adrenochrome]

[quote name='john_the_bass' post='187791' date='Apr 29 2008, 08:41 AM']cheers guys, keep them coming - i noticed i put two "5s" in the original survey. oh well.
I think it may be worth talking to a local pa company about a discount for regular stuff.[/quote]
1. Yes
2. 3KW FOH, tops, subs, 3xmonitors, active crossover, separate amp for front monitors (drummer's monitor is active) + lights
3. Shift it all ourselves (we have 3 MPVs and a large car between us)
4. Not a reliable one
5a. -
5b. -
6. - no, we don't get paid enough anyway!

[clauster]

1. Yes
2. Behringer DDX 3216 Desk, Lexicon Reverb, 2 X QSC power ambs, crossover, 4 X Turbosound cabs (2 bass, 2 full range) - can't remember all the models and ratings but total is about 3kw.
3. Shift it all ourselves - infact this Sunday we're training our guitarists and drummer in PA setting up and breaking down duties, so the singer and I don't end up doing it all ourselves.
4. Sort of - one who is reliable but not very good and one who is very good but not at all reliable.

[coasterbass]

1. Yes, we own one (although its currently in the classifieds on this very site).

2. 4kw. JBL Full range 2x15's. Celestion Subs 2x15's. Peavey foldback, behringer outboard, soundcraft desk.

3. Due to not being famous or rich we shift(ed) it in a hire transit van.

4. Nope, self-engineered. And I bet penny to a pound that for most of those saying the same, the bass player does the sound(?!?)

5. Yes. We gave up the using our PA a couple of years ago and now hire every time. Reasons? Multiple.

Transport: hiring a van costs £100. No one wants to drive it/take it back the next day etc.
Weight: I tore my sciatic nerve lifting a cab in the back of the van.
Storage: We're london based so garages come at a premium (especially to store 7foot stacks)
Insurance: The PA is the thing most likely to 'interact badly' with the audience/venue and so thats his problem : )
Cost: Its an ever-depreciating item, like a car.
Sound: No doubt about it, it sounds better when someone else in the room can control the sound, and take requests from the audience
Monitoring: We operate with zero-backline (all DI'd) so foldback is king, usually with 4 mixes. You just can't self-engineer that, and quality monitoring to do that costs.
Repairs/Maintenence: If it breaks on the day then you have someone else to look at.

6. Its regional, but generally we pay £300-£375 for a 3-6kw Martin/Turbosound/Funktion1 PA with engineer. It usually includes 8x parcans. We'd pay extra for fancy lighting if it was wanted/there was room to do it justice.

7. After doing this a few years you know have a feel for the prices, and so we charge a 1-off price to the client and then pay the PA guy ourselves. We find this works best because otherwise you get "£350 for a PA!?!?!; Nah mate, my cousins got something you can use". ALWAYS retain control of what PA gets hired.


Good thread. Interesting stuff.

[coasterbass]

Moderators... might do better with this in General Discussion, or even Gigs??

[john_the_bass]

[quote name='coasterbass' post='189470' date='May 1 2008, 09:23 AM']3. Due to not being famous or rich we shift(ed) it in a hire transit van......


..........Transport: hiring a van costs £100. No one wants to drive it/take it back the next day etc.


.......7. After doing this a few years you know have a feel for the prices, and so we charge a 1-off price to the client and then pay the PA guy ourselves. We find this works best because otherwise you get "£350 for a PA!?!?!; Nah mate, my cousins got something you can use". ALWAYS retain control of what PA gets hired.


Good thread. Interesting stuff.[/quote]


this is exactly the sort of thing i am looking for and pretty much sums up my thoughts on PA ownership of big rigs. good man!
keep 'em coming! (and yes mods, that was a good idea /\)

[Kiwi]

1) do you own your own PA? If "NO" go to question 5

Yes, we paid for it with deposits in advance of our first gig.

2) if Yes, what size is it (eg how many watts and how many components)

Mackie active, about 450w a side excl. subs

3) do you transport it to gigs yourself or do you get your roadies/engineer to load it into the van and set it up before/as you get to the venue?

We hire a van usually, we've just taken on a roadie to help us shift it.

4) do you have your own soundman?

Yes