kevin_lindsay Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 I've always loved that throaty growl you get from a P-Bass with the controls fully open. However, whenever I've rolled back the tone knob on my P-Basses, I find that the sound becomes a muddy "thud" with little definition. It's funny, but on my Jazz basses I have no problem with the tone being rolled back - maybe due to Jazz Bass pickups having s different inherent tone compared to the P-Bass? So, on my new Shell Pink P-Bass I removed the 0.022uf capacitor and replaced it with a 0.015uf paper in oil capacitor. The capacitor cost me less than £3 (thanks to eBay!), and took 2-3 minutes to remove the old one and solder in the new one. The difference in tone is remarkable. Now, when I roll back the tone knob, the sound still has midrange definition, with only the harsh top end taken off. Wonderful! I know some guys might like the dull thud of the standard control, but for anyone who wanted more definition on their P-Basses with the tone off, this is a really easy and inexpensive tweak. This was the original 0.022uf capacitor: [IMG]http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/kevin_lindsay/2222f268.jpg[/IMG] And here's the new capacitor in place: [IMG]http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/kevin_lindsay/73f171ed.jpg[/IMG] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary mac Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Might give this a try on my next bitsa build. Well I'll ask Kiogon to include one in his kit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTractor Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Nice one! Thanks! So that would also mean one could have both of them, and a tiny switch between the pots, yes? Looks like there's space enough for one. Correct? best, bert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin_lindsay Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 No idea mate. Changing the single capacitor is about the limit of my wiring capabilities! Hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 [quote name='kevin_lindsay' timestamp='1344719448' post='1768467'] No idea mate. Changing the single capacitor is about the limit of my wiring capabilities! Hahaha [/quote] Relatively easy - DPDT switch (6 poles underneath). Hold the switch so that it has 3 poles horizontally and 2 vertical, then solder wires from the two points that the cap is attached to now whilst removing the cap (one wire will be a terminal on the tone pot, the other will be to ground) to the two middle lugs of the switch (one wire per lug). Then solder the stock cap across the two left hand lugs of the switch, again, one leg per lug and solder the other cap across the right hand lugs of the switch. A bit like this: [attachment=115396:DPDT.jpg] The middle lugs of the switch are effectively the 'in and out' of the switch, and the two sets of outside lugs are the components that you'll switch between. You can use the same idea for changing resistors when circuit-bending pedals etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lettsguitars Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Those paper in oil caps are sweet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTractor Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Why not just use a 3-pole? Can't see any electronical drawback, and in these narrow cavities, component volume normally is a huge issue. Am I missing something about what a loose cap will do? best, bert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrene Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Actually enquired on here dome time back about extending the 'dull thud'. The vintage caps were also available on ebay. Is it really that easy to change them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapbassSteve Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 Really sounds like something I should try on my Precision, I hate that undefined tone when you roll it off a little to offset new string zing etc... Is there a massive difference between these ones ([color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]0.015uf paper in oil cap) and those Sprague Orange Drop caps that are mentioned on here a lot? [/font][/color] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 [quote name='BassTractor' timestamp='1344724751' post='1768563'] Why not just use a 3-pole? Can't see any electronical drawback, and in these narrow cavities, component volume normally is a huge issue. Am I missing something about what a loose cap will do? best, bert [/quote] A 3-pole would do it, but the 6 pole is the 'preferred method', as it's neater and you haven't got components floating around at the end of long, uninsulated legs that could potentially short something. No reason electronically why you couldn't though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin_lindsay Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 (edited) The paper in oil caps are supposed to be the best, but to be honest, I think it might be smoke and mirrors. The sane value of "orange drop" cap will still filter the same frequency range so you'd get the same result (I think). As far as ease of changing the cap - soldering iron on, heat the existing solder connections and remove the existing cap. Cut the leads to size on the new capacitor, heat the solder points on the pot and attach the new cap in place. Plug in your lead and check the connections are solid and the tone pot works. Then simply screw the control plate cover back down and your set to go. Time taken? Around 3-4 minutes. Dead easy. Edited August 11, 2012 by kevin_lindsay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 No point on spending on 400v caps when you've got millvolts to work with. Send me the big caps to go in amps, I need them. Little jobs from maplins that look like a match head will do the job as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin_lindsay Posted August 11, 2012 Author Share Posted August 11, 2012 (edited) [quote name='SlapbassSteve' timestamp='1344725406' post='1768576'] Really sounds like something I should try on my Precision, I hate that undefined tone when you roll it off a little to offset new string zing etc... Is there a massive difference between these ones ([color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]0.015uf paper in oil cap) and those Sprague Orange Drop caps that are mentioned on here a lot? [/font][/color] [/quote] Drop me a PM with your address and I'll post you a Mullard 0.015uf vintage capacitor so you can try it out. Ice ordered 10 of them and they should be with me mid-week. As soon as I receive my order I'll get one off to you as a freebie. Cyrene - if you fancy doing it also, drop me a PM and I'll post one to you also as a freebie. Here's how the Mullard "tropical fish" capacitors look: [IMG]http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/kevin_lindsay/0868105d.jpg[/IMG] Edited August 11, 2012 by kevin_lindsay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlapbassSteve Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 [quote name='kevin_lindsay' timestamp='1344728175' post='1768609'] Drop me a PM with your address and I'll post you a Mullard 0.015uf vintage capacitor so you can try it out. Ice ordered 10 of them and they should be with me mid-week. As soon as I receive my order I'll get one off to you as a freebie. Cyrene - if you fancy doing it also, drop me a PM and I'll post one to you also as a freebie. Here's how the Mullard "tropical fish" capacitors look: [/quote] Thanks! Pm'd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 think i posted this before but couldnt find it so here is again - its in 4 parts and some useful stuff (for lectronic noobs like me anyways) [url="http://youtu.be/92G-jw4TqS4"]http://youtu.be/92G-jw4TqS4[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyrene Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Thanks Kevin. Threads like this certainly demystify the knotty world of electronics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dincz Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 (edited) Paper in snake oil If you hear a difference, it's because of the manufacturing tolerance. Actual capacitance values can vary from the nominal value by a significant amount - 5%, 10%, 20% and more. Edited August 12, 2012 by dincz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 [quote name='dincz' timestamp='1344801190' post='1769346'] Paper in snake oil If you hear a difference, it's because of the manufacturing tolerance. Actual capacitance values can vary from the nominal value by a significant amount - 5%, 10%, 20% and more. [/quote] They do have a tendency to dry out too... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mart Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 [quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1344723781' post='1768548']... A bit like this: [attachment=115396:DPDT.jpg] ...[/quote] That's a fair way to do the job, but it can be tweaked to be slightly more robust. As it is, it relies on all four parts of the switch working, so if one of them goes, then you have a problem. If, instead, you wire the right-hand legs of both caps to the middle tag on the right (the same one that the black wire is connected to) then you are only reliant on half the switch working. Sods law will dictate that if any part of the switch fails, it will be one of the parts that you need, but then, at least, you can know that you've done all you could, and it really is that the gods are out to get you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTractor Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 [quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1344727063' post='1768596'] the 6 pole is the 'preferred method', as it's neater and you haven't got components floating around[/quote] Thanks! Yes, I can see the 'neater' bit - it's much like in math and programming. Space provided, I'll go for it - when the time comes. best, bert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heminder Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 Useful tweak, but to be honest you got ripped off for that cap! They should cost mere pennies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Bassy Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 [quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1344727063' post='1768596'] A 3-pole would do it, but the 6 pole is the 'preferred method', as it's neater and you haven't got components floating around at the end of long, uninsulated legs that could potentially short something. No reason electronically why you couldn't though. [/quote] Also using a 6 pole means that the unused capacitor is completely isolated, Using a three pole means that the unused capacitor is still connected at one end. Wires connected at one end only are often called aerials! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTractor Posted August 12, 2012 Share Posted August 12, 2012 [quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1344810914' post='1769599'] Wires connected at one end only are often called aerials![/quote] Ah! Good point, I gather. Thanks! best, bert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin_lindsay Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 Mullard capacitors (0.015uf) arrived today. If anyone else wants to try a swapover, drop me a pm and I'll send you one as a freebie (I've got 6 available) [IMG]http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y289/kevin_lindsay/296436BD-32F4-4AAE-9F56-30177F78127E-247-00000028BEE42123.jpg[/IMG] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin_lindsay Posted August 16, 2012 Author Share Posted August 16, 2012 Now down to 5 available! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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