cazzag Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 Hi Guys! Hope this is the right place to put this thread. It may look like I am just venting off, but please bare with me as what I really want to get other peoples experiences of what it’s like being in a band. Forgive me if this has been asked before - this is my first post ever! I am fairly new to this bass thing, as I only started to learn the bass 3 yrs ago. Prior to that, I was playing acoustic guitar and dabbling a bit on the keyboards. So that’s the background. So that’s me! I have been in a “band” since October 2011 (nearly a year), but only really started to meet up and rehearse from April/May this year. I met the other band members on the internet. I would like to hear your experiences of how a band “works” together? Is it a case of everyone generally gels with each other instantly with a few tweaks here and there, or is it like you can meet up with them and it takes a while to get stuff together? Within the band, I come up with a lot of the ideas for new songs. I find this slightly uncomfortable as everyone always ends up working around my basslines – and majority of the time it ends up being something I don’t really like! The lead guitarist keeps copying the bass lines I come up with, but then gives off an air that she thinks she is better than me at my instrument. Very frustrating!! Is this normal behaviour to expect? Do you just keep moving until you find a musicians you gel with or do you work with musicians who’s styles you are not really into, but just work hard to accommodate with them? That is basically it, your thoughts are welcomed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seashell Posted August 13, 2012 Share Posted August 13, 2012 I'm in my first band too - have been with them just over a month. Interesting point you make there about not really liking the songs you wrote anymore. We do a couple of original songs that were written by the previous bass player. He's a much better bassist than me and the bass lines are rather good. But overall I think the songs sound a bit tuneless and dull. I think this because the guitar and vocals are following the bass line too closely - IMO it would sound better with something more melodic over the top. But I dont say anything because I am the new girl and I certainly couldnt come up with anyhing better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertbass Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Every band's got one. It's up to you whether you can live with it or not. Our drummer's our one, oh, and the guitarist, make that two and we're a three piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 (edited) [quote name='cazzag' timestamp='1344897051' post='1770947'] Is it a case of everyone generally gels with each other instantly with a few tweaks here and there, or is it like you can meet up with them and it takes a while to get stuff together?[/quote] Can be either but - in my experience - usually the latter. [quote name='cazzag' timestamp='1344897051' post='1770947'] Within the band, I come up with a lot of the ideas for new songs. I find this slightly uncomfortable as everyone always ends up working around my basslines – and majority of the time it ends up being something I don’t really like![/quote] Then don't present the song as a bassline, live in the rhsal room, but as a recorded demo on keys or guitar with vocals, however dodgy the quality. Jot down the structure and copy it out for each of your bandmates. Doesn't have to be a major production - just the bare bones of the song. Show them the tempo, time sig, intro, verses, choruses, end, etc all down, then politely invite them to contribute. If you don't like what they're doing, smile sweetly and suggest an alternative approach. Always use the word 'different' rather than the word 'better'. If you can't persuade them to do it your way, politely tell them you think the song "needs more work on the structure", then take it away and stick it in your back pocket for the next band. [quote name='cazzag' timestamp='1344897051' post='1770947'] The lead guitarist keeps copying the bass lines I come up with, but then gives off an air that she thinks she is better than me at my instrument. Very frustrating!! Is this normal behaviour to expect?[/quote] It is quite normal for [i]some[/i] guitarists to think they're better at their instrument than they actually are. That's OK, but if they proceed to make unsubstantiated and invidious comparisons with others, we call them 'guitards' and sometimes give them a jolly good slap. Yes, it is normal for [i]some[/i] guitarists to slavishly copy basslines, but it is a far from ideal practise. Of course, there are times when doubling a riff is good. But the guitarist should not copy you to the exclusion of chordal work and harmonisation. Your guitard needs to shape up. [quote name='cazzag' timestamp='1344897051' post='1770947'] Do you just keep moving until you find a musicians you gel with or do you work with musicians who’s styles you are not really into, but just work hard to accommodate with them? [/quote] The wise bassist does both. Always keep your options open - bass players may [i]seem[/i] to be lower on the band totem pole but there are fewer of us around. Supply and demand, see. Lots of people here are in more than one band. And you being in London helps. Shitloads of bands all around you. There are always frustrations in any band and one has to balance the positive aspects of any band with the bad side. So, at one extreme money can tie together individuals who cordially loathe each other. At the other extreme there are plenty of amateur bands who'll gig for next to nothing just for the pleasure it brings. Edited August 14, 2012 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 If you think about it, it's hard enough to get a group of friends that all get along with each other, now add artistic temperament, musical ability and taste to the equation. The chances of hitting all of those criteria are pretty slim. In a band context, as a bare minimum, you'll need to be able to stand in the same room together without inserting equipment into each other and have some musical ability. I've been playing in bands for well over 30 years now and it's only in the last 5 years that I've managed to find a group of musicians that actually tick all of those boxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Having worked with one especially difficult musician, who would deliberately not play what I wrote on songs, I now won`t play in a band with anyone who has such attitudes. Music is my hobby, i only want people around me who add to it, not detract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 If someone is following your bassline too closely, play a different bassline. Let them have it as a melody/solo/whatever & play something that either harmonizes or something that backs up the tune. You can still go back & forth from the 2 (or 3) versions. It's happened to me a few times & I take it as I've written the melody & the basslline. Gelling with the band is about accepting what each musician is capable of & working with each other. Sharing ideas & being able to say "could you try playing something like this at this piece" without anyone taking offense. It's about everyone listening & being musicians. If you can't do that, then forget about the gel & be like Massive Attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 FIGHT BACK!!! [url="http://www.fishman.com/product/fission-bass-powerchord-fx-pedal"]http://www.fishman.com/product/fission-bass-powerchord-fx-pedal[/url] Now you can double up on everything the guitarists play ... see how they like it. They don't like it up 'em, Mr. Mainwaring, they don't like it up 'em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foal30 Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 most bands fail due to non-musical reasons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 [quote name='foal30' timestamp='1344932132' post='1771122'] most boybands succeed due to non-musical reasons [/quote] Fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckstop Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 Being in a band is difficult. It needs compromise from everyone and also everyone needs to be aware of their limitations. Sounds to me like you're struggling with a song. Some songs come together quickly, some take weeks or months of work. My advice would be to just finish the song, deal with it and move on. Write more songs!!! Truckstop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceChick Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I have also recently joined a band (6 weeks and counting!). We had to get rid of a rhythm guitard with ideas above his station and an attitude problem We had a new rhythm guy start last week, who like the rest of us just wants to play music and have fun. I think the most important thing about a band is to have people who can get along with no ego's getting in the way, if you can achieve this, then you are on to a winner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Deere Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I have had a similar challenge in a band with the guitarist using the bass line as a solo, also because it was written first. I've said in the past that I can't write the bass line for one of the later tracks until every thing else is in place, as I need to lock in with various rhythms rather than leading - took over a month for the guitar part to be written, as opposed to the usual few minutes of listening to the bass Also had a similar superior attitude from a guitarist that wasn't much beyond beginner basics. Having said that, the majority of people have been fine to play with and be around, and of course it can go the other way with everyone gelling nicely for a few months before it all goes horribly wrong. Sometimes its getting on well with the people that makes it all worth while other times it's the music and being on stage - it is nice to have both if you can though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cazzag Posted August 15, 2012 Author Share Posted August 15, 2012 [quote name='seashell' timestamp='1344902335' post='1770985'] But overall I think the songs sound a bit tuneless and dull. I think this because the guitar and vocals are following the bass line too closely - IMO it would sound better with something more melodic over the top. But I dont say anything because I am the new girl and I certainly couldnt come up with anyhing better! [/quote] Hahaaa, thats exactly how i feel about one of the songs that we have. I too have the same problem as you - but not because i am new, but i dont want to tell another musician how to use thier instrument. I do think though, that its important to try and get your ideas across, but like some one else has said already, say the word " different" rather than " better". I would also have something ready to suggest - if you dont then dont say nothing at all :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cazzag Posted August 15, 2012 Author Share Posted August 15, 2012 [quote name='bertbass' timestamp='1344903960' post='1770994'] Every band's got one. It's up to you whether you can live with it or not. Our drummer's our one, oh, and the guitarist, make that two and we're a three piece. [/quote] Every bands got what? Sorry i dont understand what you mean....if you mean a Guitard then that must be stressful to have 2 around you! I would of been a one man band by now :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cazzag Posted August 15, 2012 Author Share Posted August 15, 2012 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1344906829' post='1771004'] Can be either but - in my experience - usually the latter. Then don't present the song as a bassline, live in the rhsal room, but as a recorded demo on keys or guitar with vocals, however dodgy the quality. Jot down the structure and copy it out for each of your bandmates. Doesn't have to be a major production - just the bare bones of the song. Show them the tempo, time sig, intro, verses, choruses, end, etc all down, then politely invite them to contribute. If you don't like what they're doing, smile sweetly and suggest an alternative approach. Always use the word 'different' rather than the word 'better'. If you can't persuade them to do it your way, politely tell them you think the song "needs more work on the structure", then take it away and stick it in your back pocket for the next band. It is quite normal for [i]some[/i] guitarists to think they're better at their instrument than they actually are. That's OK, but if they proceed to make unsubstantiated and invidious comparisons with others, we call them 'guitards' and sometimes give them a jolly good slap. Yes, it is normal for [i]some[/i] guitarists to slavishly copy basslines, but it is a far from ideal practise. Of course, there are times when doubling a riff is good. But the guitarist should not copy you to the exclusion of chordal work and harmonisation. Your guitard needs to shape up. The wise bassist does both. Always keep your options open - bass players may [i]seem[/i] to be lower on the band totem pole but there are fewer of us around. Supply and demand, see. Lots of people here are in more than one band. And you being in London helps. Shitloads of bands all around you. There are always frustrations in any band and one has to balance the positive aspects of any band with the bad side. So, at one extreme money can tie together individuals who cordially loathe each other. At the other extreme there are plenty of amateur bands who'll gig for next to nothing just for the pleasure it brings. [/quote] Thank you for your time to write this, not only is it funny but all your points make sense....I hope its ok to call the guitarist a "guitard" because that is whats going to happen next time she copies me! :-) I guess i had an idea that it does time to get something going with a band and rarely is it instant. I was watching the Aerosmith bio the other day, and it gave of the impression that Steve (singer) and Joey (guitarist) got on musically just like that....they were veeeeery lucky i guess! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Bands are difficult - always have been IME. At some point i made the decision that if i get on with most people in the band then good enough - you can't be expected to like everyone in the world or them like you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cazzag Posted August 15, 2012 Author Share Posted August 15, 2012 [quote name='icastle' timestamp='1344922820' post='1771026'] If you think about it, it's hard enough to get a group of friends that all get along with each other, now add artistic temperament, musical ability and taste to the equation. The chances of hitting all of those criteria are pretty slim. In a band context, as a bare minimum, you'll need to be able to stand in the same room together without inserting equipment into each other and have some musical ability. I've been playing in bands for well over 30 years now and it's only in the last 5 years that I've managed to find a group of musicians that actually tick all of those boxes. [/quote] WOW!! that is a long time....to be frank my gut feeling is that you need to know the musicians well in order to succeed and produce some good music. I dont mean that in a personal sense, but just with regards to musical direction and goals. For example, the drummer has now invited us to go and see one of her mates bands perform. So its left me thinking " Is this her motive for getting us all together?" I am real happy for you that you have found a band that you gel with...i bet you guys bang out some tunes now!:-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cazzag Posted August 15, 2012 Author Share Posted August 15, 2012 [quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1344924785' post='1771034'] Having worked with one especially difficult musician, who would deliberately not play what I wrote on songs, I now won`t play in a band with anyone who has such attitudes. Music is my hobby, i only want people around me who add to it, not detract. [/quote] I hear you frustration, that is strange. Hope they were decent enough to give a understandable explaination why they wouldnt play your stuff. So are you playing with the ideal people? Or are you still looking ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayben Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 [quote name='cazzag' timestamp='1345025031' post='1772380']For example, the drummer has now invited us to go and see one of her mates bands perform. So its left me thinking " Is this her motive for getting us all together?" [/quote] I'm not sure how you can see anything sinister in being invited as a band to go and see another band perform.. I'd say it's more of an effort to socialise as a unit, both internally and externally. I can't say I've worked with any especially difficult musicians, I've been incredibly lucky in that respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 [quote name='cazzag' timestamp='1345022466' post='1772341'] I hope its ok to call the guitarist a "guitard" [/quote] Here, yes. To their face? Not so much NB a drummer who gives you attitude is a 'drumtard'. Strangely, I've not yet encountered a keys-tard, but there's plenty of time, i suppose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyc Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Being in a band can indeed be hard, though I've never been in bands with complete strangers, and definately the best band I've been in was when I was 16, with my older brother and 2 of our best mates. I've never gelled with anyone else as well, songwriting just seemed so easy and we all knew what each other would do before it happened. Yeah we had our arguments but as we were such good mates we'd get over it pretty quick and carry on as normal. It's so different to the band I'm in now, in terms of the writing process. Back then we'd rock up at practice and my bro would start playing a riff he'd written earlier and we'd all join in and write our parts as we played. Now I'm in a metal/hardcore band, and either the drummer or guitarist will write the entire song (on all instruments) by himself on guitar pro and send it round for us to listen to. Then we say what we do and don't like and get him to change it. Then we learn it at home and play it together at practice. Feels a bit alien to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cazzag Posted August 15, 2012 Author Share Posted August 15, 2012 Thanks for advice/experience :-) Having read it all, I have taken on board a few things. But I think I will eventually leave this band...just got to find the right moment! That being said if anyone is in the London area, and wants to take my place let us know. Please dont get this twisted, the people in the band are talented; i just have all these questions going on in my head and was just wondering if i am nuts or do these odd things happen in bands :-) Oh, and this is another thing....you gotta be female! (if i had my way, i would just get someone who is a good player but its not my band!)...just another issue i dont get with this band..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commando Jack Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 (edited) When I started in bands (about 13 or 14 years ago) my mum gave me sage advice. She (a family therapist) explained to me that a band is like any other group, so will go through pretty loosely defined stages in its life and each person will fill a certain role (or multiple roles). The stages: Forming - the start, where everyone is getting to know each other, feeling each other out. During this stage disagreements are quickly extinguished and people keep their feelings within themselves rather than express them to the group to avoid confrontation for the good of the group as a whole. Generally, mutually bad feelings between individuals are suppressed but build until the next stage. Storming - the fighting stage. Not necessarily fisticuffs or even heated arguments, but this is the stage where everyone finds out how the rest of the group really feels. By this stage feelings of individuals are more important to them than the needs of the group (or have become conflated with the groups needs) and so they air their feelings. This stage can be fatal to the group. Norming - this is the aftermath of the storming stage where everyone is aware of what others think/feel and the group establishes a way to work together. There might be some ground rules to prevent arguments, or just implicit understandings between members forged. Performing - The conclusion of the norming phase, where the group can move on focus on the original task. Adjourning - The group disbands for whatever reason. All stages may last for minutes or years, and in some cases stages are skipped. Some groups, for example can go from the storming to adjourning stage. If you replace "group" for "band", and "person/individual" for "musician", then you may see a pattern similar to being in your band. I certainly did! For the group roles, there will always be leaders and followers, jokers and facilitators etc. When you see the band in this light and can identify who is filling what role, it can make it easier to understand what's going on or how to deal with it. BTW sorry for the long post Edited August 15, 2012 by Commando Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnnyc Posted August 15, 2012 Share Posted August 15, 2012 Thats really cool looking at it from that point of view. Very interesting post Jack I'll be working out who's filling what role in the coming weeks I imagine. More often than not I'm filling the joker role Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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