Tuition - what was your approach to learning

[Bilbo]

I was just reading a piece about a student of a US saxophonist and he mentioned that he went for lessons with a certain teacher for 7 years. I know Jeff Berlin was having lessons with Carlie Banacos right up to his death as, I believer, did Mike Stern.

My own approach (which I don't really advocate) was to teach myself with occasional lessons - I had a half dozen lessons with a guy called Dan Quinton in Plaistow who played with Otis Grand and the Dance Kings, two sessiosn with Dudley Phillips (John Paricelli, John Etheridge, Perfect Houseplants, Womak and Womak) and one double bass session with our very own Jake Newman (Jakesbass) but that was it.

The thing is, whilst I can readily see the value of lessons, I have never felt that I have been in a position to pay out £30+ a time. I think I could have advanced more quickly and still keep thinking about having lessons to plug some gaps in my learning but it always seems to get put to the bottom of the list of essential purchases.

But it got me thinking. How do/did others learn? How many had weekly lessons like classical playing kids do at school? Was it money well spent? Just curious.

PS the world I grew up in didn't have colleges doing popular music type training and electric bass was off the curriculum until I was well past that as an option.

[OliverBlackman]

I think unless you learn how to analyse music, just learning songs or using books isn't always beneficial. Luckily I'm now at a point where I could get the most out of most books. I will always get private tuition though if I can afford it. I've been trying to find time for lessons with Daf Lewis for ages!

Some people need tuition and others don't but I don't think it can hurt to try lessons with a few different tutors until you find one that really helps you.

[Commando Jack]

The best learning I ever did was with drums, and the teacher had a very casual style. He essentially taught me a given technique and showed me some songs where it was used, then said "come back to me when you can do this". Sometimes I came back after a week or two, sometimes I didn't see him for a month. It allowed me to learn at a pace I could cope with around school etc and I progressed really quickly.

I had weekly lessons for oboe at school and this didn't really work for me - I began to see it as a chore because although it was well structured, it boiled down to "learn this piece for next week". The material was typical tune-a-day type stuff, so it took a long time to progress (it was very slow increments of difficulty). I would get bored and not practise, sometimes only practising the night before or sight reading the piece in front of the teacher. Incidentally he often praised my sight reading ability because he knew fine rightly what I was at!

Any other instrument has been self taught, and this was only really possible because the musical background I received at school helped me understand and apply to different instruments. As I suspect with the majority of self taught people, progress for me was sporadic and came in bursts because the majority of time I started to lose direction after I reached a certain level.

Edited August 20, 2012 by Commando Jack

[Bilbo]

I think its that losing direction you talk about that makes me think the self-taught route has done me no favours. If I had had someone who could say 'try this', 'do that'' etc, I may have made faster progress.

[El Bajo]

I started bass at boarding school which had very little in the way of a music program and it didn't have internet. I was rubbish. But after A levels I went and worked in tenerife for a while and discovered a local house band that rocked the place. I got lessons of the bassist who taught me the 3 finger technique, good form and timing. I returned to England to go to Uni so didnt keep up the lessons but I'm eternaly thankful to him for teaching me correct technique at such an early stage.

Fast forward 14 years and I'm still crap, well thats not quiet true. After so many years playing I'm able to play pretty much whats in my head but I fall down so badly in other areas...Theory, slapping and tapping, songwriting, are all things I wish I could dedicate more time too. I pretty much learned everything I know from playing with people better than me with the help of a few books (which I never completed) and online lessons (which I eventually get bored of). I wish I could get tuition as I find I get distracted easily when trying to learn new things by myself, but I'm skint.

At 31 I decided to shelf formal learning and concentrate on being a tight player for the band...all the scales and chord tone exercises in the world practiced until I'm blue won't save me not knowing my parts in a live performance.

I guess everybody learns differently and I haven't found that art of practicing yet.

[bertbass]

When I first started to play bass, 1967, there was nothing. No books, internet, videos or tutors. Infact all there was were records and the occasional sighting of a bass player on TV, plus of course a multitude of live music.

Once I discovered how to tune a bass, it was just listening to records and sussing out which notes were being played and playing along until I got it right. Actually, there was sheet music but this was nearly always written in the wrong key, I think that a chap sat down at the piano and worked out what the chords were so the songs were mostly in C, and just gave the chord and melody written in dots. Thinking about it, the words were wrong as well.

The first song that I learnt to play the bass line too was Purple Haze and I learned that on a Vox Stroller guitar, that I bought form my Mum's mail order catalogue, Marshall Wards's If I remember correctly, for £19 and played through my Dad's Truvox tape recorder.

My first 'real' bass was a Vox Clubman strung left handed through a Linear 30 valve head and a home made 2x12 with one speaker not working.

[BigAlonBass]

Shared learning experience for me. My Dad introduced me to an old Double Bass Player, who wanted to branch out on Electric Bass. He taught me a lot, for the chance of acclimatising himself to the old Hofner Professional I had at the time, and I got a lot of time on his Double Bass. He also found me a massively powerful 20 watt Fenton-Weill combo for £6 (well, it was 1967) and I used it at all my Youth Club gigs. He also gave me a great deal on his first Precision when he changed to playing a Jazz Bass.

[oldslapper]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1345472476' post='1777826']
... but it always seems to get put to the bottom of the list of essential purchases.
[/quote]

It depends on why you'd want lessons I guess, and as you rightly point out, if they can be financially justified/prioritised or pushed up the list of priorities.
Were your experiences of lessons good? If you went for a lesson today, would you know what it is you are trying to achieve, or improve? That's often helpful for both student and tutor.

I've had lessons from 4 teachers, and they all had differing approaches. I know now which approach helps me most.
I view any financial outlay as much about the period in between face to face contact as the 60 minute lesson itself.

[Lozz196]

I went to a couple of lessons, to learn the notes, then essentially taught myself by buying the songbook to Never Mind The Bollocks by The Sex Pistols. This approach also taught me how to tune the instrument by ear as well, as I didn`t have a tuner. I can probably play all sorts of scales, but would never know which/if any, that I was playing.

[Cameronj279]

Ever since I started playing I've just learned everything on my own (despite spending a year in college doing music, I received literally no help at all, dreadful tutors.)

I have never had a lesson but this is not due to me being to stubborn to get one or anything, I've just never had the money to do so. I would love to get lessons at some point.

[JTUK]

I listened to such a lot and I trained my ears.... I never felt the need to rip anyone off but I nicked so many little bits from anything I liked.
My real education was when I picked up a jazz gig as I had decent solo chops...enough to get the gig, and the keyboard player could play anything in all manner of styles...and
I learnt all about his left hand in 'jazz'...haha , ie horn keys.
I could keep up my end from a playing POV but they were more educated than me so I learnt to hear intervals and every song had a chart of sorts.
It wasn't so hard to fill in the blanks and eventually write up your own pad...

The piano and the band leader were my teachers as were the masses of horn players that passed through. I didn't think I needed to know about bass but I did need to bone up on music...

[lojo]

I've played in a gigging oringals band and more covers /functions than my age, but I've never really learned anything re music as an adult and nothing of the sort was on offer as a kid (I brought my first guitar and amp 2nd hand with my wages after wanting one for years)

Went for a lesson a few years back to see what was in involved and where I was at, and decided that whilst I really wanted to progress knowledge of theory, the time and cost required where already spoken for with family and other hobbies Im involved with.

So playing covers is now all I do, I enjoy it and sometimes make some good money for a nights fun

So you could say my attitude to learning bass and music stinks

If I has my time again it would be different , but now it's all about the time I have

Edited August 20, 2012 by lojo

[Blademan_98]

When I was a kid, I had both piano and classical guitar lessons.

I switched to electric guitar and had to teach myself the rest.
A good grounding of years playing scales did help.

I have had a few bass lessons and would dearly love more.

It is money and time I dont have.

One day though, I will have more lessons.

[RhysP]

I've always just used my ear - no teachers, books, videos or anything else.
Never had the spare money to spend on regular (or irregular) lessons, and as I'm now earning less than I was when I was 18 I probably never will have a lesson.

[SpaceChick]

I have lessons with your quite awesome protégée Bilbo

In fact I have been looking at an old bass of yours only today One with "hurdles" on it

Interestingly, I have come home so happy from a lesson today that I have started my own thread

Edited August 20, 2012 by SpaceChick

[Bilbo]

What's the chances of that happening?

[jezzaboy]

I had one bass lesson when I had just got the bass and paid the sum of £17 for 1 hour. Really basic stuff but the thing was it was in a dodgy part of town and I was pooping myself walking around the area with a bass, so I never went back and that is why I am the talanted player I am today.

Is there a smiley for when you are talking bulls**t?

[xilddx]

I've had 1.5 bass lessons with Jake Newman. He is a FANTASTIC teacher. What he gave me on half a sheet of staff paper could last me a lifetime.

He said one thing that kind of crystallised everything music related to me, play what you sing. I also took that to mean that what you sing should be as advanced as you need or want it to be, to educate your ears and musical mind. The other thing he unintentionally taught me is that I don't need lessons, that I should follow my own path to musical enlightenment, and it's all based on desire. I am comfortable with my playing and my ears, I improve them in my own way, desire alone leads me. I listen, I play, I adapt, I get excited, I learn, I apply. Repeat ad nauseam.

[jezzaboy]

Silddx that is sage advice. The next time I ba**s up on stage and get one of THOSE looks form singer boy, I will tell him, take it easy, I`m following my own path to musical enlightment!

[xilddx]

[quote name='jezzaboy' timestamp='1345495931' post='1778260']
Silddx that is sage advice. The next time I ba**s up on stage and get one of THOSE looks form singer boy, I will tell him, take it easy, I`m following my own path to musical enlightment!
[/quote]


Please take note, don't go on stage until you are ready

On a serious note, you really do have to have a good perception of your own abilities, you should always know when you can't cut it

Edited August 20, 2012 by silddx

[Faithless]

It's interesting you mentioned Charlie Banacos, Bilbo. Very few people have heard of him, but a shitload of top jazz guys had studied with him - John Scofield, Mike Brecker, Berlin (he was on and off the track with Banacos over the years), Stern was religious about studying with him, so he stood with Charlie until his death.
By the time I got into improvised music, I couldnt get a chance to study with Banacos anymore, as he died from cancer, but I was lucky enough to get on the track with one of his former students, Joe Hubbard - I've already been studying with him for nearly 1,5 years, and have never been happier about my progress.
Good guys charge a lot, and I don't mind spending 30 quid on a lesson, as long as I'm given the right material and right criticism.

[thebrig]

I only started playing about 5 years ago even though I am now 60, I've had a few lessons in that time, and if I could afford it, I would have lessons every week, but at £30 per hour, I really can't afford it.

Do tutors really need to charge £30 per hour? after all there is hardly any outlay, as most students usually go to the tutor's house with their own bass, the only expense that I can see, is powering up an amp for 60 minutes or so.

Of course, I do realise that there is a lot of prep work for them, and I appreciate that they are passing on many years of hard work and knowledge.
Most do a great job, and I know they would make me a much better player, but I can't help wondering if they charged a bit less, maybe they would get more work, and still make some decent money from it.

I for one would probably pay £20 per hour, but £30 is just too much I'm afraid.

If anyone knows of any decent tutors in the Herts area, who would be happy to give me lessons for £20 per hour, I would certainly be interested.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1345495427' post='1778249']
He said one thing that kind of crystallised everything music related to me, play what you sing. *snip* The other thing he unintentionally taught me is that I don't need lessons, that I should follow my own path to musical enlightenment, and it's all based on desire. I am comfortable with my playing and my ears, I improve them in my own way, desire alone leads me. I listen, I play, I adapt, I get excited, I learn, I apply. Repeat ad nauseam.
[/quote]

Same fer me - I was lucky enough to work this out for myself, way back.

I'm not discounting a lesson or two at some point if I ever get stuck in a rut, but it ain't happened yet.

[SpaceChick]

My teacher charges £19 an hour... and I go fortnightly. I'd go every week if I could afford it.