Pete Academy Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) When I posted recently about Kid Charlemagne I was surprised to see that Jay-Zee had used a sample from the song. This prompted me to check out how many other artists have sampled Steely Dan. There are loads, virtually all hip-hop artists that have done so. So what are your thoughts on this. Is it plagiarism, or is it artists being ceative? Edited August 21, 2012 by Pete Academy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAlonBass Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Sorry, but the phrase "un-original, thieving talentless b*stards" has always tripped lightly off my tongue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckstop Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Well sampling's always been a massive part of hip-hop and will continue to be in the future. I see no problems with it; I consider it to be an homage to the original artist! Fatboy Slim does it all the time innit! Truckstop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Well, being an''80s metal head in the day, I was a bit against it.But listening to industrial stuff like Ministry ,Swamp terrorists etc I realised that if it sounds good then it's a good thing.Remember Paul Hardcastle? That 'song' wasn't too bad to be honest.imho . Even Rush did samples(new world man) Each to their own I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 [quote name='BigAlonBass' timestamp='1345577161' post='1779105'] Sorry, but the phrase "un-original, thieving talentless b*stards" has always tripped lightly off my tongue. [/quote] But is it a product of our times or of our technology? I suspect if sampling had been so easy in the 60s then loads of artists would have been at it back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 In the late '80s there were some great records made by patching together bits of old records. It's not practical to do that any more because it would be prohibitively expensive, so now a lot of rap acts just use one obvious sample to save on royalties, but when it was feasible to use loads of them there was some very creative stuff going on. Shame the industry killed it off IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbass4k Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) It depends, I'm not a fan of basing an entire song around a sample, like black eyed peas did with misirlou, to me that's a cover, no matter how originally you interpret it, it's a cover. But sampling can be used very artistically, DJ Shadow's Endtroducing was made using entirely sampled sounds (and in fact was the first album to do so) He arranged and manipulated dozens of samples to create a unique song. Personally I don't see much difference between that and "regular" musicians choosing which notes to play in which order. Any guitarist can play F, A#, G#, and C# power chords, but only Kurt Cobain could make them into Smells Like Teen Spirit. Same with sampling, tell me this is just uncreative plagiarism: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32X-ieCav-M[/media] Edited August 21, 2012 by bobbass4k Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartelby Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Using samples creatively is just as hard as writing any other form of music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Rock Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 No problem with it at all, in fact Paul's Boutique is one of my favourite albums Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Sampling has been around since the advent of recording. How about the Mellotron? The steam organ collage on The Beatles' "Being For The Benefit Of Mr Kite!" The massed voices "played" from the mixing desk on 10CC's "I'm Not In Love" "The Adventures of Grandmaster Flash on the Wheels of Steel" by Grandmaster Flash And those are just a few done using simply pre-recorded tape and vinyl, mostly before the first digital samplers even existed. IIRC Pink Floyd had planned to record an album without any conventional instruments using recorded and pitch manipulated sounds on tape - it was abandoned as being to difficult and time-consuming to produce in the late 70s. Using a single well-known "sample" as the backbone for another composition is mostly unadventurous and lazy, but there are plenty of innovative re-uses of existing recordings being made all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1345580977' post='1779169'] IIRC Pink Floyd had planned to record an album without any conventional instruments using recorded and pitch manipulated sounds on tape - it was abandoned as being to difficult and time-consuming to produce in the late 70s. [/quote] That would be the abandoned "Household Objects" project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Vincent Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Assuming that due credit is given,if the finished piece of music is one that did not exist before,then sampling is fine.After all,how many of us play totally original no one's ever played this before music? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul torch Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I have no problem with it as long as the original artist is credited. Let's not forget that it can re-ignite interest in some long forgotten classics and encourage the public to seek out the original. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenitram Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Talent borrows; genius steals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Creative. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU5Dn-WaElI[/youtube] Not very creative. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxuodY-c0yU[/youtube] Mind you, I could have done the same with many tracks 'written' by Led Zep which don't feature sampling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Even some obvious/simplistic sampling has turned into interestingly original music. Like Public Enemy's 'She Watch Channel Zero'. Novel application of a Slayer riff and a great tune we wouldn't have had if someone hadn't sampled Angel of Death one day. I don't understand why anyone would object to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bo0tsy Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I don't have any issues with sampling so long as it is creative. As per previous posts there wouldn't be hip hop without sampling. Unfortunately many hip hop artists and producers these days rip off or regurgitate whole chunks of songs, whilst if you look at Beasties, De La Soul, Gangstarr or Tribe Called Quest it was usually a small riff cleverly introduced to create a whole new song. The flip side of sampling also, is that it re-raises the profile of the original artist. I used to buy a lot of early 90's hip hop, find out where the sample was from and get into the original artist. The careers of the likes of legendary artists like James Brown and George Clinton were in the doldrums before hip-hop brought them back into the spotlight and effectively resurrected their careers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 I think sampling and sample manipulation is just as valid as any other form of music. It can be just as tricky too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 It was Kanye West that sampled 'Kid Charlemagne', not Jay Z. It's a staple part of hip-hop culture and I think the creativity of sampling is very high. Some rappers like Q-Tip from A Tribe Called Quest are able to formulate and bounce ideas off of the rhythmic interest of a sampled bass line or drum break and it can often make for some really interesting records. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntLockyer Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0KvXSom3-I Taking a really good record and making another really good record out of it. Clever stuff imho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Vader Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 If De la Soul hadn't sampled Steely Dan back in the day I would never have known who steely dan were. Would I have been happier that way? who knows... Sampling is no worse than playing the same 3 chords over and over, and using obvious ****ing blues riffs all the time. In fact it is a lot better See Girl Talk for how great it can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Some more examples of De La using mostly one prominent sample to make something new. It's obvious what the tunes were, but it's such a different feel. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DTNsBrl8vQ And who would honestly rather this didn't get made. This is a great tune: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYw0NnHDRzc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 [quote name='BigAlonBass' timestamp='1345577161' post='1779105'] Sorry, but the phrase "un-original, thieving talentless b*stards" has always tripped lightly off my tongue. [/quote] Ooh dear! We are all musical thieves, don't try to convince yourself otherwise. Hip Hop is far more 'original' than most pop and rock music, and the good stuff is very good indeed. What is talent? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul torch Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 (edited) I remember reading a piece somwhere where this guy was putting the case that the sampler was the first really true advancement in music and composition since the piano. I think he has a point. edited for drunken spelling Edited August 23, 2012 by paul torch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Rock Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1345666467' post='1780318'] What is talent? [/quote] In music? Getting a sound and putting it together with other sounds, where the result is more than the sum of its parts. It doesn't matter whether it's a double bass note, a sample, or the crash of a dustbin lid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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