Most young virtuoso drummers and bassists sound the same as eachother

[xilddx]

I've noticed most young(ish) virtuosos I've seen seem to sound pretty much the same. I think it's all these Berklee grads and whathaveyou learning from the same sheets and tutors and influences.

Not only that but they all seem to want to play solo, even though they are playing supporting instruments, and when they do, they all have the same sort of tones, chops, phrasing, accents .. I'm not even sure what my point is But I wish there were more young virtuosos with more individual voices, I think. Am I barking up the wrong tree?

EDIT: I think my point is that given many of these people have extraordinary ability, knowledge, adept at many styles and techniques, are they in thrall to the demands of musical 'norms' pre-defined for such players? Are they all under pressure to demonstrate they are 'the next Colaiuta' or 'the next Jaco' like we constantly read in music magazines and online? Taste and imagination have always seemed to me to be more important than superpower chops.

I tried to find a bass version of the Berklee drummers video below but I didn't try to hard, I think you get the idea

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4JPm6gbd8A[/media]

Edited August 25, 2012 by silddx

[Pete Academy]

I know what you mean. Nige. I don't think we'll see an original bass voice much, as I think it's all been done, and schools are churning out players like this.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Pete Academy' timestamp='1345917163' post='1783157']
I know what you mean. Nige. I don't think we'll see an original bass voice much, as I think it's all been done, and schools are churning out players like this.
[/quote]
I suppose it's quite natural to think everything has been done, but it hasn't, every month proves it, with new styles of music and genres emerging.

[thisnameistaken]

Interesting new music is usually made by interesting new people, not necessarily (or even likely) diligent music students.

[AntLockyer]

It's when they get released into the wild that things start to happen and the true voice come through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH11YFqMoB0

[Mabrothrax]

I feel it's quite simply because now there is (and has been for some time) an expected standard of playing and technical ability, to which students are both actively and unwittingly pursuing,

In a fast and hard world, the person who can tick the most boxes has an advantage - not to say that personality and originality don't matter, but when you consider the modern realm of recording, producing and so on you can easily see why so many players will chose to fulfil expectations/requirements rather than impress and excite with a personal twist on their musicianship.

[mrtcat]

Wholly agree with OP. I find a lot of these guys seem keen to demonstrate technical ability in preference of using that ability in conjunction with confidence in their imagination. That said when it comes to "groundbreaking" new material you generally have to wade through plenty of guff before finding something that is both new and actually good to hear.

[gub]

That's why I chose not to be a virtuoso !

[xilddx]

[quote name='gub' timestamp='1345924353' post='1783288']
That's why I chose not to be a virtuoso !
[/quote]



But you raise a good point. I often feel I should be a much better player and theorist all round, but in what I do, my challenges are normally about taste and serving the song, and nuanced articulation, and it's really these things that can imbue your playing with your personality. The way I play is all down to what motivates me, I love certain types of music and they influence me and teach me. We all love some incredible incendiary technique, but after a short while it gets tiring, the MUSIC is what will have have lasting effects on our lives. I hope these guys get a living at what they love, but the music media seem to bombard us with virtuosos and telling us that we should aspire to their levels. It all seems to be mostly about the super-chops session players these days. I'm bored shitless of hearing them if I'm honest.

[zero9]

Are they a product of their environment? Would the same person locked away in a room with a bass guitar without any external influence produce the same 'music'?

Maybe we should all stop listening and just play what we feel.

[skej21]

[quote name='zero9' timestamp='1345926464' post='1783327']
Maybe we should all stop listening and just play what we feel.
[/quote]

That's deep... maaaaaan!

[xilddx]

[quote name='zero9' timestamp='1345926464' post='1783327']
Are they a product of their environment? Would the same person locked away in a room with a bass guitar without any external influence produce the same 'music'?

Maybe we should all stop listening and just play what we feel.
[/quote]

We are products of our environment and influences though. We grow up with music and we naturally want to emulate what made us feel good. Making yourself feel good outside of those influences and inspirations would be largely impossible.

If you locked me in a room with a bass, you would find me trying to smash the f***ing door open with it, I wouldn't be playing it

[zero9]

So would I in all probability lol.

I believe Jonas Hellborg locked himself away early on in his career and emerged suddenly on the scene and blew people away with his 'virtuosity'.

Food for thought.

[xilddx]

[quote name='zero9' timestamp='1345927274' post='1783337']
So would I in all probability lol.

I believe Jonas Hellborg locked himself away early on in his career and emerged suddenly on the scene and blew people away with his 'virtuosity'.

Food for thought.
[/quote]
Well he actually started playing when he was a kid and loved the rock music from that era, Hendrix, Purple etc. Then he got into Miles Davis and John McLaughlin. So he may have locked himsel in a room but what inspired and influenced him to do that was John and Miles.

[Jigster]

[quote name='AntLockyer' timestamp='1345920087' post='1783213']
It's when they get released into the wild that things start to happen and the true voice come through.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BH11YFqMoB0[/media]
[/quote]

do you name of this track?

[bobbass4k]

I've always been suspicious of "virtuosos", does anyone actually [i]enjoy [/i]solo virtuoso bass and drum music? It seems to me most people are just impressed with the ability and technicallity. Whenever I see or hear comments on the playing of people like Wooten it's always "wow he's amazing, that double thumbing is so fast!" not "wow, that melody is so beautiful". And if you bring up this point with these people, it's always the same response of "you're just jealous because he's so much better than you", it seems like a weird kind of hero worship to me.

Most performing musicians are motivated by ego, but solo virtuosos seem to be in a field all of their own.

[stu_g]

i agree i was watching some bass playing on youtube the other week i forget who it was some virtuoso of the bass and i sat there thinking why dont you just buy a guitar because in a band situation with a singer how is that kind of playing any real use alot of notes and fancy technique but no real feeling and i just came to the conclusion he was an only child who wanted attention

[BassTractor]

Agree. I often ask myself whether they love music or just themselves. I've hated Berklee and that other similar place (name escapes me right now) for decades even though they sometimes deliver a good musician. They're note factories rather than places where one is given an environment to develop oneself. Music as a language of communication is downplayed.

best,
bert

[Jam]

Wow, that drumming video was obnoxious.

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='bobbass4k' timestamp='1345929562' post='1783357']I've always been suspicious of "virtuosos", does anyone actually [i]enjoy [/i]solo virtuoso bass and drum music? It seems to me most people are just impressed with the ability and technicallity. Whenever I see or hear comments on the playing of people like Wooten it's always "wow he's amazing, that double thumbing is so fast!" not "wow, that melody is so beautiful". And if you bring up this point with these people, it's always the same response of "you're just jealous because he's so much better than you", it seems like a weird kind of hero worship to me.[/quote]

I think a big part of the problem is that bass guitar just isn't a nice-sounding solo instrument. Particularly when players crank the treble so they can fanny about with harmonics. You end up hearing as much mechanical noise as you do note.

Virtuoso double bass players are a different kettle of fish, although I suppose they have a repertoire provided for them, or at worst 'cello pieces they can make a decent fist of. They don't have to ruin some other instrument's music as much as bass guitarists do.

[Fat Rich]

Long term, what produces a better all round bass player?

1) Someone who has studied the extremes of the instrument, realised they've overplayed and used judgement to get back to something tasteful that suits the song

or

2) Some lazy, useless plodder like me who can only play simple stuff and has to search around in my empty brain whenever I want to play something vaguely interesting

Edited August 26, 2012 by Fat Rich

[neepheid]

Well, I feel fraudulent enough with my simple scale and arpeggio regurgitating as it is.

[Roland Rock]

The OP asks why they sound the same as eachother. I think that the environmental and cultural influences are key. Just like any other group of people with common interests, these people will tend to be friends, have the same tutors, go to the same Jam nights etc. The more they are listening to the same stuff, picking up chops from eachother and frequenting the same You Tube channels, the more their styles will sound similar, subconsciously or not.
As others have suggested, it takes someone with a fresh and adventurous attitude to really produce something, well, fresh and adventurous. These people will take their influences as a building block to create something original.
Only dead fish swim downstream ;-)

BTW, love that Mars Volta vid, I'll be checking out more of their stuff, thanks.

[chardbass]

I'm reminded of that famous video (think it was a Zildjan Drum Day or sim) with Weckl, Colauita and Gadd. The first two were heavy in thrills and chops and Gadd absolutely shone with feel and taste beyond comparison.
3 unique, or at least instantly recognisable, voices in the drum world at that time.

[SteveK]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1345915777' post='1783132']
I've noticed most young(ish) virtuosos I've seen seem to sound pretty much the same. I think it's all these Berklee grads and whathaveyou learning from the same sheets and tutors and influences.
[/quote]
This has long been the view of many musicians that I've met and worked with (over many years) who have learnt their craft doing it the old fashioned way, ie. locking themselves away in their bedroom and eventually joining a band and honing their skills on the road in seedy pubs and clubs.
Generally speaking, those that didn't have much to say or felt that they were not listened to would fall by the wayside. Those that had something different to say and were applauded would often go on to be innovators.
Many of those from the colleges, while being virtuosos (in asmuch as they know their way around their instrument and more theory than I'll ever know), simply don't have anything different to say. Of course, there will always be the exception.