Under what circumstances would you leave negative feedback??

[TheGreek]

Finally sold my Jaydee today...bit like buses, several interested parties came along at the same time at the end...thing is one of those "interested parties" kept me "on hold" for several weeks...lots of promises, several excuses why they hadn't come across with any cash and requests to keep hold of it for them for a bit longer..

In the end I lost interest with them and sold it to somebody else...

Thing is I ended up feeling I was having the p155 taken out of me and that the party concerned was a time waster..

Should I leave negative feedback..?? what would you do??

[waynepunkdude]

Yeah leave FB.

[Mr. Foxen]

Feedback is there for other people to benefit from, not to settle scores. If you'd known he was a timewaster, you'd have had him waste less of your time, so do that favour for the next person.

[simon1964]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1346009310' post='1784099']
Feedback is there for other people to benefit from, not to settle scores. If you'd known he was a timewaster, you'd have had him waste less of your time, so do that favour for the next person.
[/quote]

+1.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1346009108' post='1784094']
Finally sold my Jaydee today...bit like buses, several interested parties came along at the same time at the end...thing is one of those "interested parties" kept me "on hold" for several weeks...lots of promises, several excuses why they hadn't come across with any cash and requests to keep hold of it for them for a bit longer..

In the end I lost interest with them and sold it to somebody else...

Thing is I ended up feeling I was having the p155 taken out of me and that the party concerned was a time waster..

Should I leave negative feedback..?? what would you do??
[/quote]
I'm not meaning to 'leave you negative feedback' with this comment but if I have more than one party interested I set a time limit. So, I say to the person who contacted me first: 'This is the deal. Do you want it or not? I need to know by a certain time (usually 24 hours) with payment or I will go to the guy who contacted me second' and meanwhile I explain that to the guy who is second, etc. In other words, I wouldn't let them take the pi55.

None of this can work of course if you only have one person interested but even then I wouldn't put somehting on hold without a clear and definite offer that was acceptable to me.

Edited August 26, 2012 by EssentialTension

[EssentialTension]

I forgot to say, if you really feel that you were being unreasonably messed around, the pi55 taken, then leave the negative feedback - that's what feedback is for.

[BILL POSTERS]

Why bother...

Do you really think anyone takes much notice ? Not unless theres a lot of negatives anyway.

If it makes you feelbetter, carry on. But thats the only effect it will have.

[davehux]

Chalk it up to experience, and next time set some timescales for completion of the deal. Save negative FB for fraudsters, scammers and other pond life

[Phil Starr]

It's very simple, however cross you are just be factual, If they asked you to hold for an unreasonably long time then just say so. If they delay with someone else then that person is warned by you and they won't be able to do it again.

There's no reason to be rude of over the top, one sentence from you will stop them being able to do this in the future and saying nothing means they will do the same again in all probability.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='BRANCINI' timestamp='1346010558' post='1784124']
Why bother...

Do you really think anyone takes much notice ? Not unless theres a lot of negatives anyway.

If it makes you feelbetter, carry on. But thats the only effect it will have.
[/quote]
I take a lot of notice of feedback, both when selling and when buying. I don't think I'm the only one.

[Shockwave]

Sorry guys.

If no transaction has taken place, no feedback can be left. A deal is not done until it is done. Timewasting happens and It has happened to me many times at the cost of selling a bass. Deal with it, its part of using internet classifieds.

[TheGreek]

If people only leave positive feedback what is the point of leaving feedback at all??? Doesn't this devalue/discredit the positive feedback we all leave?? Surely if somebody leads you to believe they're going to do a deal and you turn down other offers because of this why shouldn't you want to let others know about this..??

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Shockwave' timestamp='1346012640' post='1784153']
Sorry guys.

If no transaction has taken place, no feedback can be left. A deal is not done until it is done. Timewasting happens and It has happened to me many times at the cost of selling a bass. Deal with it, its part of using internet classifieds.
[/quote]
OK, that's a fair point. But just to clarify, what if, for example, I do a clear deal to meet up to exchange item and cash and the other party doesn't bother to turn up, without reason or explanation. Would you still say 'A deal is not done until it is done'?. I appreciate fully that there isn't much if anything that could be done in a case like that but it seems to me exactly what feedback is about.

[simon1964]

[quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1346013693' post='1784167']
If people only leave positive feedback what is the point of leaving feedback at all???
[/quote]

This. If the feedback threads mean anything at all, then I would want to know if someone had messed another basschatter about on a deal. One of the reasons I buy and sell on here is simply that the experience is so much more positive than ebay. If someone has had a negative experience I think we should know.

[Shockwave]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1346014046' post='1784175']
OK, that's a fair point. But just to clarify, what if, for example, I do a clear deal to meet up to exchange item and cash and the other party doesn't bother to turn up, without reason or explanation. Would you still say 'A deal is not done until it is done'?. I appreciate fully that there isn't much if anything that could be done in a case like that but it seems to me exactly what feedback is about.
[/quote]

If money has been spent in the effort of doing a deal which can be proven such as a scan of a receipt for shipping or train stub. Then you can give feedback.

[quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1346013693' post='1784167']
If people only leave positive feedback what is the point of leaving feedback at all??? Doesn't this devalue/discredit the positive feedback we all leave?? Surely if somebody leads you to believe they're going to do a deal and you turn down other offers because of this why shouldn't you want to let others know about this..??
[/quote]

Anyone can leave bad feedback. But only if a deal has been done. Otherwise abuse of the feedback system can occur. Meanings of private messages or E-mails can be mistaken, people can have a genuine issue meaning they cant buy. Be practical no way would I ever allow a feedback system that allowed people to give bad feedback to someone who suffered a death in the family or lost their job and had to pull out of a deal.

However because a seller cant prove if a potential buyer couldn't go through with a deal because of some reason genuine or not, we cannot allow feedback to be left unless a transaction has occurred where money or basses have changed hands.

Also if particular forum members have personal problems with each other, anyone can leave bad feedback even though no deal was ever in the works in the first place.

You get Tyre kickers in any classifieds section in any kind of media, implementing a feedback system where you could give feedback for transactions that never occurred would cause huge friction in the community and lots of work for the mods acting as intermediary's.

This has been moved to site issues.

[flyfisher]

I agree with ET. If a deal is agreed and then one party pulls out such that the deal falls though then I'd say that would warrant feedback even though a deal was never actually completed.

[Shockwave]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1346015079' post='1784192']
I agree with ET. If a deal is agreed and then one party pulls out such that the deal falls though then I'd say that would warrant feedback even though a deal was never actually completed.
[/quote]

As I said in my post above. No way would I ever allow a system that allowed people to bad mouth one party, because it is possible that a death in the family or something genuinely awful has occurred which means they couldn't complete the deal.

I realize that this is not always the case, and people may lie about why they pulled out. But that's their moral and ethical issue and they have to live with that. Shame on them if they invent excuses.

However we cannot prove if whatever happened to them was genuine or not so we cannot implement bad feedback when no transaction has occurred. There is a reason why sellers on eBay cant leave feedback for watchers of items that never bid, Imagine the chaos!

[quote name='Shockwave' timestamp='1346012640' post='1784153']
Sorry guys.

If no transaction has taken place, no feedback can be left. A deal is not done until it is done. Timewasting happens and It has happened to me many times at the cost of selling a bass. Deal with it, its part of using internet classifieds.
[/quote]

To clarify my comment above. Yes you should be able to leave bad feedback if you have spent money to try and do a deal, such as travel or a courier that was never used. However you need to talk to the seller/buyer first for a resolution before you leave feedback and provide us with proof of purchase of travel/courier.

[simon1964]

Shockwave - I take your point, but I've bought and sold loads of stuff on Basschat, and if someone had a history of pulling out of deals then personally I would like to know.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Shockwave' timestamp='1346015377' post='1784198']
As I said in my post above. No way would I ever allow a system that allowed people to bad mouth one party, because it is possible that a death in the family or something genuinely awful has occurred which means they couldn't complete the deal.

I realize that this is not always the case, and people may lie about why they pulled out. But that's their moral and ethical issue and they have to live with that. Shame on them if they invent excuses.

However we cannot prove if whatever happened to them was genuine or not so we cannot implement bad feedback when no transaction has occurred. There is a reason why sellers on eBay cant leave feedback for watchers of items that never bid, Imagine the chaos!



To clarify my comment above. Yes you should be able to leave bad feedback if you have spent money to try and do a deal, such as travel or a courier that was never used. However you need to talk to the seller/buyer first for a resolution before you leave feedback and provide us with proof of purchase of travel/courier.
[/quote]

Absolutely bang on, Shockwave. I applaud you for this stance, even though I've had similar experiences to the OP on occasion.

[Shockwave]

[quote name='simon1964' timestamp='1346016140' post='1784213']
Shockwave - I take your point, but I've bought and sold loads of stuff on Basschat, and if someone had a history of pulling out of deals then personally I would like to know.
[/quote]

Tough My system is the lesser of two evils. You cannot prove that they had a genuine reason for pulling out and they cant prove they had a genuine reason for pulling out. Your suggestion would basically turn things into a "Guilty until proven innocent" scenario.

When selling my Pedulla, I lost £175 due to a guy pulling out after I had booked a courier and he lied like a dog to get out of the deal (Claimed after he had the bass packed for shipping that he used it at a gig and sustained damage and couldnt trade, then he posted another sale thread up a month after with no damage). I left bad feedback as I could prove the shipping transaction occurred, but I only left the feedback after a month of E-mailing him with no reply for him to rectify the situation and E-mailing talkbasses admins and discussing it with them. I gave the benefit of the doubt until it becomes obvious.

I also lost lots of time and money trying to do a deal with the Pedulla and a Pink P-J bass. But I didn't leave bad feedback.

Trust me, I know where you are coming from and I have been mucked around more then anyone on here (probably). But I will not allow a witch hunt.

[simon1964]

So when can we leave negative feedback?

[skankdelvar]

[quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1346009108' post='1784094']
what would you do?[/quote]

I'd have a vent about it in OT (no names, mind) and then chalk it up to experience. You've sold the bass to someone else, they're happy, you're happy.

Feedback is about transactions. Leaving bad feedback for someone outside a transaction who wasted your time has nothing to do with the transaction. Besides which, you might post that he dicked you around, he might post that you sold the bass out from under him and then it's an "I said / he said".

I'm sure everybody feels differently but the Feedback mod hath spoken. His gaff, his rules.

If people don't like that, they can always use ebay and leave extra-transactional feedback there. Oh, except they can't.

Edited August 26, 2012 by skankdelvar

[chris_b]

I think there is a place for negative feedback; if you've been screwed, conned or cheated for instance.

Apart from that.... deal with it.

[Shockwave]

[quote name='simon1964' timestamp='1346016839' post='1784230']
So when can we leave negative feedback?
[/quote]

When a transaction has occurred. Feedback is mostly for if a item was not as described, not delivered, late in being shipped or bad attitude of seller/buyer. The only other reason would be if someone has outlay-ed money to acquire an item (in the form of courier or travel costs) but the other party pulled out. Even then mods need proof of receipt that money was spent and all avenues from both parties have been exhausted to satisfy the aggrieved party before bad feedback can be left.

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1346016898' post='1784232']
I'm sure everybody feels differently but the Feedback mod hath spoken. His gaff, his rules.

If people don't like that, they can always use eBay and leave extra-transactional feedback there. Oh, except they can't.
[/quote]

Actually I am not the feedback mod. Though I have dealt with these disputes as classified mod.

[skankdelvar]

Wasn't there a story here about some buyer? Got the seller to pick him up from the station, tried the item, lovely stuff, got the seller to drive him to an ATM to get the cash, went back to the seller's house and then said "Nah! Changed my mind."

Or was I dreaming?