Why bother...........

[Lord Sausage]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1346610072' post='1791191']
Mate we are the same on here! We'll watch an Asian transvestite, the wrong drummer, Neil Peart f***ing up an intro, but will we head over to the BC Recording section and listen to BCers' bands?
[/quote]
Ha ha. So true, I think that should end the thread really!

[Johngh]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1346610072' post='1791191']
Mate we are the same on here! We'll watch an Asian transvestite, the wrong drummer, Neil Peart f***ing up an intro, [b]but will we head over to the BC Recording section and listen to BCers' bands?[/b]
[/quote]

Actually Yes !

JaggyWiddit innit !

[bartelby]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1346610072' post='1791191']
but will we head over to the BC Recording section and listen to BCers' bands?
[/quote]

Yes. And go and see them if I can.

There are 4 BCers' bands that I listen to pretty much every week. And I've seen ANTA 4 or 5 times now.
It's one of the things that keeps me coming to BC, discovering new bands to listen to.

Edited September 2, 2012 by bartelby

[xilddx]

[quote name='bartelby' timestamp='1346610860' post='1791206']
Yes. And go and see them if I can.

There are 4 BCers' bands that I listen to pretty much every week. And I've seen ANTA 4 or 5 times now.
It's one of the things that keeps me coming to BC, discovering new bands to listen to.
[/quote]

That's good man! I do too, and I've had a fabulous response to Kit's ep. But I think these are the exceptions, the Recording section, and the Show us Your Vids thread get few responses to postings, unless it's some sort of technical fireworks or a Jaco cover

[Bilbo]

You need to be careful where you go with all of this. I am appalled that Justiin Bieber can fill stadium after stadium but Charles Mingus occasionally played to empty rooms in his home town. Put on Shakespeare and you will attract 100 people whilst a really bad local football team can attract 5,000. Put on John Scofield in Cardiff and you won't fill a pub but put on a Thin Lizzy tribute band and you can call it a festival with 8,000 people.

If you do it for the music, you will always win. If you do it for the audience, you are probably going to be disappointed more often than not (it is refreshing for us old jazzers to know that we can now attract an audience that competes with a rock band. My biggest ever audience (4,000) was a jazz band whilst my smallest (3) was a rock band that had a session played on Radio One).

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1346612914' post='1791245']If you do it for the music, you will always win.[/quote]

Nomination for the BC site motto! (translated into Latin anyone?)

[bartelby]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1346612095' post='1791227']
That's good man! I do too, and I've had a fabulous response to Kit's ep. But I think these are the exceptions, the Recording section, and the Show us Your Vids thread get few responses to postings, unless it's some sort of technical fireworks or a Jaco cover
[/quote]


I guess I'm a bit guilty of not leaving replies.

I'm just listening to Kit's ep. I really like it. Always on the look out for something with a melody and tune to offset all the DOOM/Drone I listen too!

[The Admiral]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1346613386' post='1791253']
Nomination for the BC site motto! (translated into Latin anyone?)
[/quote]

Et si quidem musica semper vincere (No credit to me - just Mr Google and his translator)

[crez5150]

My sideline of PA hire and Karaoke nights is doing very well..... Can't see the problem

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='The Admiral' timestamp='1346623905' post='1791409']
Et si quidem musica semper vincere (No credit to me - just Mr Google and his translator)
[/quote]

Bugger! It'd have to be a damn big scroll under the BC coat of arms then.

[bremen]

[quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1346599480' post='1791021']
The question isn't 'why bother' - it's 'why worry' !!

You do your thing to whoever wants to watch you doing your thing and it makes you happy.

Somebody else does there's in greater numbers...good for them. I've found that since the point where I was confident and experienced - at life - enough to stop conning myself into thinking we're all equal and was therefore able to accept that most people I come across are dumber than me , I've found such things as karaoke much easier to deal with.
[/quote]

Ain't that the triple truth, Ruth. What you're doing isn't in competition with karaoke any more than it is with football or stamp collecting, totally different sports.

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1346610528' post='1791195']
I'd rather watch Karaoke (which is essentially a cheesy track with someone singing for fun, comfortable with the knowledge that they are awful!) than watch a truly average covers/tribute/cliche band strut around like they're the next big thing with egos to match and a total disregard for the punters who are paying their wages.
[/quote]

But that band will still have invested in gear and rehearsal time. It's the X Factor syndrome. For every sh*t act there is a decent one that's been replaced and had a missed chance, all for the sake of entertainment.

[skej21]

[quote name='Pete Academy' timestamp='1346659449' post='1791507']


But that band will still have invested in gear and rehearsal time. It's the X Factor syndrome. For every sh*t act there is a decent one that's been replaced and had a missed chance, all for the sake of entertainment.
[/quote]

The investment reasoning is absolute rubbish. I've invested a lot of money into my gear because I have to for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I have to sound good or I don't get asked back.

Secondly (and most importantly), in an industry full of hobbyists it's an essential part of competing. For every good band who work hard and offer professional/original entertainment, there's a band of hobbyists who spend all there wages on gear and then under cut everyone else to get the gig.

Example being we nearly had an originals gig cancelled the other night because another band with about £20k of PA, lighting, amps, guitars etc had rang the pub to say that they were free that night and offered to play for free. Luckily we'd protected ourselves with paperwork, but it highlights the fact that in our industry (and the current climate) the irony is that the people who go out 'for the love of music' are the ones undercutting original acts and drawing the opportunities.

You can't get noticed if you can't get a gig, and you can't get a gig if you're competing with free!

[Dr.Dave]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1346613386' post='1791253']
Nomination for the BC site motto! (translated into Latin anyone?)
[/quote]

Principali minstrelos skinto ???

I'd prefer 'fine words butter no parsnips'.

[Lozz196]

[quote name='Jambo10' timestamp='1346529228' post='1790346']
Last night, ourselves, along with 2 supports (punk band and rock blues band) did a charity gig, 4 hours of solid live music.

After much promotion the crowd wasn't quite as big as we would have liked, but all 3 bands had a decent time and we all raised a few quid for charity......what bugs me is as we are dismantling the rig we see the karaoke in the other bar totally heaving, with what can only be described as noises akin to a cat on heat pulled through a mangler by the no.57 bus.

If that kind of *entertainment* pulls in the punters, it makes you wonder why you spend your time playing music at all!

I know this gripe has probably been heard a trisquillion times, but it just gets to me at times and maybe it's time to not bother playing and see what all the X factor nonsense is all about.........erm, no, hang on...scrub that last bit!
[/quote]

What irritates me about this is the line "the karaoke in the other bar". So the venue putting on live music, also puts on karaoke at the same time in another bar. Well I know it`s about them making money, but that to is just wrong. Either be a live music venue, or a karaoke venue, but not both at the same time.

[Norris]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1346624936' post='1791416']
Bugger! It'd have to be a damn big scroll under the BC coat of arms then.
[/quote]

Do it for the music = enim faciunt, quaerentes musicam
(According to Google translate )

Or better still for the BC coat of arms:
For the music = ad canendum

[Rich]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1346613386' post='1791253']
Nomination for the BC site motto! (translated into Latin anyone?)
[/quote]
Enim faciunt, quaerentes musicam et eris semper vincere.

[size=2]EDIT: damn, Norris beat me to it. I like the idea of 'do it for the music'.[/size]

[flyfisher]

Alternatively: [i] Illegitimi non carborundum[/i], which seems to cover a multitude of situations.

[TimR]

[quote name='Jambo10' timestamp='1346529228' post='1790346']
Last night, ourselves, along with 2 supports (punk band and rock blues band) did a charity gig, 4 hours of solid live music.

...
[/quote]

Seems an odd mix - who were you Hopi g the gig would appeal to?

What sort of music does your band play? How much do you usually charge? I think if you want to raise money for charity you're usually better off doing a regular pub gig, donating your fee to charity and passing round a bucket.

[Conan]

[quote name='LeftyBiskit' timestamp='1346533637' post='1790397']....you cant polish a turd[/quote]

No, but you [i]can[/i] roll it in glitter!

[TimR]

It's quite remarkable how many pub landlords only do it for the beer, only open the odd Saturday night, only serve the beer they like and don't expect to get paid.

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1346661761' post='1791532']
The investment reasoning is absolute rubbish. I've invested a lot of money into my gear because I have to for a couple of reasons. Firstly, I have to sound good or I don't get asked back.

Secondly (and most importantly), in an industry full of hobbyists it's an essential part of competing. For every good band who work hard and offer professional/original entertainment, there's a band of hobbyists who spend all there wages on gear and then under cut everyone else to get the gig.

Example being we nearly had an originals gig cancelled the other night because another band with about £20k of PA, lighting, amps, guitars etc had rang the pub to say that they were free that night and offered to play for free. Luckily we'd protected ourselves with paperwork, but it highlights the fact that in our industry (and the current climate) the irony is that the people who go out 'for the love of music' are the ones undercutting original acts and drawing the opportunities.

You can't get noticed if you can't get a gig, and you can't get a gig if you're competing with free!
[/quote]

"twas always thus and always thus will be"

Will always be a problem when someone does for a hobby what someone else is trying to make a living at.

While I sympathise with the hopeful professional (my son is one) I don't think you can expect the hobbyists (I'm one) to give up their major source of enjoyment to leave the field clear for them.

Edited September 3, 2012 by Count Bassy

[Jambo10]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1346667145' post='1791598']
What irritates me about this is the line "the karaoke in the other bar". So the venue putting on live music, also puts on karaoke at the same time in another bar. Well I know it`s about them making money, but that to is just wrong. Either be a live music venue, or a karaoke venue, but not both at the same time.
[/quote]


I didn't realise karaoke was on till quite late as the bars are not adjoined....and at that very point I asked myself the same question.
In the end it was a promoter who arranged it all.....could have been a bit better planned really!

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1346678447' post='1791805']
Seems an odd mix - who were you Hopi g the gig would appeal to?

What sort of music does your band play? How much do you usually charge? I think if you want to raise money for charity you're usually better off doing a regular pub gig, donating your fee to charity and passing round a bucket.
[/quote]

Again....it was a promoter who asked the 3 bands along, was a total mix, something for everyone, but then the flip side is nothing all night for anyone!

[skej21]

[quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1346702870' post='1792216']
While I sympathise with the hopeful professional (my son is one) I don't think you can expect the hobbyists (I'm one) to give up their major source of enjoyment to leave the field clear for them.
[/quote]

Far from it. I just think that ANYONE who wants to play live should set a competitive rate. I'm not arsed if someone else gets the gig and is paid for it. I'm all for competition and letting the venue/punter decide.

The problem comes when people don't charge anything. Every pub owner in the land would book a crap pub band who are free before a band who want paying. Just have a minimum charge for any band, and then let the competition be about the music, or the punters choice is all I'm saying.

At least then the hobbyists would make some money from gigging too!