Conan Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 (edited) [quote name='bassist_lewis' timestamp='1346667444' post='1791604']... bass players shouldn't use the same tone for all songs/gigs. Does anyone agree that you should you change your tone for every song? Lee Sklar gets annoyed when he sees bass players fiddling with the controls on their bass. [/quote] I think there is a big difference between not using the same tone for [i]all [/i]songs, and changing tone for [i]every[/i] song! Totally depends on the band and situation doesn't it? If you play covers from a wide range of different bands/genres then you will probably have to change tones and even basses to a certain extent if you are the kind of player who wants to get everything "just so". Say, for example your band plays "Hysteria" by Muse, followed by "New World Man" by Rush, then Queen's "Another one bites the dust". Would you play all three with the same tone? That's not to say that you couldn't manage the whole set with just a P bass of course... but that depends far more on the bass player than the rest of the band or the audience. I think Sklar's comment says more about him than it does about bass players. What a silly thing to say. As we all know, different venues and stages often necessitate a bit of a tweak with tone just so that you can be heard at all... and if you don't get it right straight away (or if more people come in for example) then further "twiddles" may be needed. Personally, I do like to make changes to my tone for different songs or song sections. That may include (as others have said) moving hand positions, using fingernails or a pick, palm damping, harmonics, changes of EQ or pickup combinations. Frankly, I don't see that it is anyone else's business as long as it sounds good withing the context of the band and/or song! Edited September 3, 2012 by Conan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musophilr Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 I think that for playing live you need one basic good sound that allows your part to be heard without splatting over other peoples' parts. What sound that is might depend on your style of music (you probably need a more toppy sound for funk & slap than you do for dub reggae), and on how the band sounds in the venue you're playing in. The only limit in the studio is how much time you can pay for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 I use the position of my fingers, thumb, or pick, as well as a selection of pedals which most bassists would regard as ridiculous. Why limit yourself? My "tone philosophy" comes from working in the studio. Quite often people will add an extra layer of guitar or keys, even if it's just a slightly different tone. I like to be able to make these contributions live. I supposed it's a bit like backing vocals - adding contrast and variety. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 [quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1346677835' post='1791796'] Streuth! I've no idea of the type of music your playing, your level of experience or how extreme your tone changes are, but it sounds to me that you're a FOH engineers nightmare . I don't mean to be patronising, but, unless you have a really good handle on EQs, levels etc. your sound guy will be spending all his time worrying about where the bass is in the mix, and not much else. [/quote] Well, some engineers have been quite close-minded, and big headed. One even attempted to take a dry DI once!! Most are more than accomodating and often have to nip to the toilet to crack one off after hearing my assortment of bass-tone-godliness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdowner Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Oh dear - I have enough difficulty getting a good sound from one set of knob positions, and one hand position, without having to work out how all the knobs work together. I only have a GB Streamliner, and it has 5 full range knobs, and one 3-way cut knob which is just short of 300,000 combinations (if you assume 10 positions on each infinitely variable knob). When you add the three non-volume controls of the bass, you get 3 million combinations. Who has time to work all that out? *sobs* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 [quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1346678959' post='1791818'] Well, some engineers have been quite close-minded, and big headed. One even attempted to take a dry DI once!! [/quote] I always send FoH a pre-EQ DI. That way they at least have a baseline that they can work from and - if they do their job properly - I should be able to do what I do with my bass's controls and my pedals without ruining their mix. I consider the EQ on the amp to be for backline monitoring only. Although having said that, on double bass it's totally the opposite - most FoH guys don't know what to do with one (although they'd never let on...), and so I have to do my very best to get a sound that will work out front and then send them a post-EQ signal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobVbass Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 I've heard about this changing tone idea in the past and frankly wan't no truck with it. The tone knob on my bass is there to enhance the Feng Sui of the guitar not for actual use.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 [quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1346679612' post='1791831'] I always send FoH a pre-EQ DI... [/quote] I meant that I turned up to a gig with a huge 25-pedal-board and the guy asked me to just feed that to the amp, and to give him a totally dry DI. He didn't offer to mic the amp or anything, just assumed that a totally dry bass sound would be better than my pedalboard, without even hearing it. It would have been fine in a tiny pub but it was a fairly big venue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 Oh right. Yeah we once got a sound guy who told us drummers weren't supposed to sing, and moaned about it all the way through our soundcheck. Sometimes you just get a dickhead don't you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 You certainly do! One of them wouldn't let me use a guitar amp once, 'cos guitar amps are for guitars, stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 [quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1346677835' post='1791796'] Streuth! I've no idea of the type of music your playing, your level of experience or how extreme your tone changes are, but it sounds to me that you're a FOH engineers nightmare . I don't mean to be patronising, but, unless you have a really good handle on EQs, levels etc. your sound guy will be spending all his time worrying about where the bass is in the mix, and not much else. [/quote] So why is it perfectly OK for guitarists and keyboard players to use completely different sounds on different songs or even in different parts of the same song, but it's not OK for bass payers? If the tonal balance of the band changes because the main instrument changes shouldn't adjust their sounds to match? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurbs Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 I got myself a Zoom B9.1ut for 4 main reasons: 1. Stereo DI 2. Stereo output for IEM (no backline needed). 3. Stereo output for backline > pa power amp > Midget T > Drummer 4. All the patches a bassist could want. With this I can assign buttons to change chorus, reverb, distortion, anything mid song + create a different patch for each song. What I actually end up with is about 6 or 7 patches which mimic most of the bass styles and then switch it to the right one on the right song. The only mid song changes I do are for chorus and distortion. For rehearsals I don't bother usually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 (edited) [quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1346681127' post='1791857'] Oh right. Yeah we once got a sound guy who told us drummers weren't supposed to sing, and moaned about it all the way through our soundcheck. Sometimes you just get a dickhead don't you. [/quote] Wonder if obbm could supply a range of 3 pin male XLRs > 13A mains plugs to sort these guys out ;-) Edited September 3, 2012 by bremen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveK Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1346681476' post='1791860'] So why is it perfectly OK for guitarists and keyboard players to use completely different sounds on different songs or even in different parts of the same song, but it's not OK for bass payers? If the tonal balance of the band changes because the main instrument changes shouldn't adjust their sounds to match? [/quote] Never said it wasn't OK, just highlighting the potential pitfalls. In any case, generally speaking, the bass has a specific and important role, if it's missing in the mix it's all too evident. Whereas guitars and keyboards temporarily missing will have less impact. Unfortunately for the keyboard player there is far greater demand on him, he can be expected to play: Piano, organ, strings, voices, glockenspiel, tubular bells, bagpipes etc. with a the different levels that entails. I play with a keyboard player who was well respected in his day, known for being one of the first users of the Mellotron and Moog synthesizers (he's been doing it a while ) . Believe me, after every gig there is invariably a big discussion between him and the FOH engineer about levels between the different keyboards, and levels of different sounds within the same keyboard. But somehow as long as the drums and bass are there it seems less of a problem . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 [quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1346684356' post='1791893'] the bass has a specific and important role [/quote] Sure bass guitar in rock music is often just a thickening effect underneath the guitars, but that's just rock music. There's other music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 I don’t care how the original sounds; I'm the bass player so all the numbers I play get my tone. I must be doing something right because, while I’ve been asked to turn up and turn down, I’ve never been asked to change how I sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Academy Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 On my bass I boost a liittle bass and treble and a healthy amount of mid. I use my pickup pan to change tone throughout the set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveK Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 [quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1346684985' post='1791898'] [b]Sure bass guitar in rock music is often just a thickening effect underneath the guitars, but that's just rock music.[/b] There's other music. [/quote]Eh??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 I think "the bass" describes a section of the frequency spectrum providing the root of the harmonies. It's easy to fulfil that role as well as extra duties. I have a sort of "bass channel" on my pedalboard which just provides the low end of what i'm doing. This means that when i'm playing big chords, "the bass" is still there, along side the big distorted guitar chords i'm playing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1346685486' post='1791902'] I don’t care how the original sounds; I'm the bass player so all the numbers I play get my tone. I must be doing something right because, while I’ve been asked to turn up and turn down, I’ve never been asked to change how I sound. [/quote] agree............ and you get asked to play a lot...so that is the endorsement that settles it, really, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 [quote name='bassist_lewis' timestamp='1346667444' post='1791604'] What about guys like Jaco or James Jamerson or Anthony Jackson? [/quote] Jaco's studio tone & live tone were two very different things. His live tone was a lot harsher & often used distortion & modulation effects. Listen to "Heavy Weather" then listen to "8.30" - there's a huge difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 I'll have 3 core sounds and my trick is to go between fingers attack on the rear pickup and a general Jazz sound and keep the levels consistant. When there is too much going with a new engr, he will likely have his hands full without me adding to it. But, fine, if you want to change sounds and then wonder why the sound has dropped out of the mix. It can be tough enough to get it there in the first place so I don't chase the engr around ...I want the bass to be there from the start and to have it stay there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 I don't understand why people assume variety in sound will give the soundman a nightmare. Just get your sounds right before you turn up at the gig and there won't be any problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 [quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1346684985' post='1791898'] Sure bass guitar in rock music is often just a thickening effect underneath the guitars, but that's just rock music. There's other music. [/quote] This Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mog Posted September 3, 2012 Share Posted September 3, 2012 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1346668471' post='1791620'] Completely depends on what sort of music you are playing and what the other instrumentation is. [/quote] ^This. For my main originals band I have a stock grind tone that changes slightly as needed. Nothing fancy, just a different hand position or with a pick. For the covers band I normally go with a slightly scooped tone that fits most of the songs, the alterations usually come from fx units. Finally with the acoustic group I use a tone with the low mids boosted slightly and the treble cut slightly. This one doesnt change because it fits well with just about every guitarist/group I've played with/in. IMO a good tone is something that doesnt have to be altered or changed too often because it is useable in various situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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