TheRev Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 I can't really see what would prevent your thumb from moving up the neck when playing at the 12 fret position. Is it possible that you're keeping the upper arm of your fretting hand too tense, so that your elbow stops against your waist as you move up the neck? I suspect your issue is caused by your playing technique rather than your bass, but I'm happy to have a look at your bass for you (I'm also in Bristol). I'm on holiday this week so it'll have to be sometime next week. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 [quote name='TheRev' timestamp='1346832960' post='1793669'] I'm happy to have a look at your bass for you (I'm also in Bristol). I'm on holiday this week so it'll have to be sometime next week. Dave [/quote] Basschat to the rescue!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Rich Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 (edited) [quote name='wishface' timestamp='1346830626' post='1793641'] .......My left thumb doesn't come over and is centred. However when I move up the neck the thumb moves into a more horizontal position pointing toward the headstock and is further from the fretting fingers because that's the only way my fingers can access the neck at that height. I can't really see how anyone could play otherwise unless they had a very unusual shaped hand! I'm not sure how to display this. [/quote] Your thumb placements look OK, I actually aim to have my thumb pointing up towards the headstock playing all positions on the neck, it's a more relaxed position for your hands and puts less strain on your tendons IMO. Difficult to be sure from the pics but I reckon the action could probably go a little lower. Could you try a little test? Fret the E string at the first fret with your left hand, also fret it at the 24th fret with your right hand. What is the action like at the 12th fret? It should be around a millimetre, probably a bit less.... if it's still really high, or if the string is on the 12th fret that'll tell us the truss rod needs adjusting. Edited September 5, 2012 by Fat Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 From your pics i can swear that your intonation is off, the sadles are all at the same level and you hardly get that when intonating a bass. Take up on TheRev's offer and let him have a look at your bass and give you some advice on setting up and playing technique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Agree, intonation most likely out, going by the pics. Well done to TheRev, very decent of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishface Posted September 5, 2012 Author Share Posted September 5, 2012 [quote name='Fat Rich' timestamp='1346834807' post='1793702'] Your thumb placements look OK, I actually aim to have my thumb pointing up towards the headstock playing all positions on the neck, it's a more relaxed position for your hands and puts less strain on your tendons IMO. Difficult to be sure from the pics but I reckon the action could probably go a little lower. Could you try a little test? Fret the E string at the first fret with your left hand, also fret it at the 24th fret with your right hand. What is the action like at the 12th fret? It should be around a millimetre, probably a bit less.... if it's still really high, or if the string is on the 12th fret that'll tell us the truss rod needs adjusting. [/quote] If those thumb placements were off then i'd have to get new hands because there's no other way my thumb will go! :DI tried the e string and it sits about a milimetre high if my eyesight is any judge. i could try lowering the action more but the saddle is already really low on the bridge anyway. I also think the E string sounds louder than the other strings. It just feels as if the E is on a different bass entirely really. I can't adequately explain it. The intonation is definitely out anyway: the 15th fret E and the open G should sound the same pitch but they are out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishface Posted September 5, 2012 Author Share Posted September 5, 2012 [quote name='TheRev' timestamp='1346832960' post='1793669'] I can't really see what would prevent your thumb from moving up the neck when playing at the 12 fret position. Is it possible that you're keeping the upper arm of your fretting hand too tense, so that your elbow stops against your waist as you move up the neck? I suspect your issue is caused by your playing technique rather than your bass, but I'm happy to have a look at your bass for you (I'm also in Bristol). I'm on holiday this week so it'll have to be sometime next week. Dave Thanks. Maybe we can work soemthing out, but I don't actually live in Bristol I live some ways outside and I don't have transport.[/quote] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishface Posted September 5, 2012 Author Share Posted September 5, 2012 Is it easy to adjust intonation? Maybe it's something I can try myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Yes, it`s fairly easy. You just need a tuner, and either a screwdriver or allen key, whichever is used to make the adjustments to the saddles on the bridge. All you do is tune the strings to the right note. Then, on each, fret the string at the 12th fret, and pluck it. It should be exactly the same note as when plucked open. If its flat you need to adjust the saddle so it moves towards the neck, if it`s sharp you need to adjust the saddle away from the neck. Of course it can be done a lot more in depth, but this is the easiest way to get your bass virtually there. A luthier will do a far better job, but this method will get the bass sounding much better, and is easy to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenitram Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Out of curiosity, what else would a luthier do for intonation other than what you have described above? Or do you mean they'd do it in a more expert way, taking saddle height and the truss rod and all the rest into account at the same time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 [quote name='wishface' timestamp='1346846560' post='1793926'] Is it easy to adjust intonation? Maybe it's something I can try myself. [/quote] It's pretty easy to do, more time consuming than anything else. It's also best to do it with a new set of strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 [quote name='Zenitram' timestamp='1346849346' post='1793990'] Out of curiosity, what else would a luthier do for intonation other than what you have described above? Or do you mean they'd do it in a more expert way, taking saddle height and the truss rod and all the rest into account at the same time? [/quote] A luthier wouldn't do any more for intonation than you or I would, unless something was seriously amiss & the bridge had to be moved. What a luthier could do that many people wouldn't attempt are things in the overall set up process such as fret dressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishface Posted September 5, 2012 Author Share Posted September 5, 2012 ok, adjusting the saddle just moves the screw without moving the saddle back or forth. This can't be normal. If i loosen it (the screw is already as far as it's going to go so I can only loosen it) it just moves the screw so that, if i keep loosening it, it will eventually come off completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Vader Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 At this point you need to detune your string so the saddle can move. Or hit it with the screwdriver. Depends how brave you're feeling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greyparrot Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 [quote name='lowdowner' timestamp='1346789637' post='1793366'] I don't really know the answer to this, but my gut feeling is that the 'groove' can live in an elastic band, let alone a many-thousand-pound wonder-bass... Seriously, I've been moved to dance to someone slapping a shoebox with feeling. The 'problems' (such as they may be) are probably lack of practice/groove and not much to do with the instrument... Keep playing, the groove can be released by someone bashing the table top with a biro.... [/quote] Hey MAte most spectors are very high quality instuments but their are ones made in china, but still good. It sounds like it just does not suite you, and that happens to all of us....Try sitting down does it feel any better ? if so, could be to do with the strap. If its really not for you try and sell and get something thats right for you.....Many spectors get sold on here....good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishface Posted September 5, 2012 Author Share Posted September 5, 2012 It's clearly a low budget instrument. Im' sure their more expensive instruments are much better. I'm not slagging them off. I've had this bass for ten years. I just would like to know what to expect from the instrument. It is what it is. I've managed to improve the intonation somewhat on the E, and i've lowered the action a bit more. Given that I pick over the pickup I can't lower it too much. I think it's probably as good as it's going to get without getting into looking more deeply, such as examining the truss rod which I'm not going to do. To be honest the tuning test for intonation didn't produce wildly divergent results, to my ears the fretted 12th and the harmonic on each string sounded identical anyway. Thanks for all the help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brensabre79 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 From the pics I would say the neck needs a shim, the trussrod may need a tweak to get the action lower without the buzz and the bridge definitely needs adjusting - if its been in the same position for years it might take a bit of light bludgeoning to move it initially. All of these things will improve the sound and playability of your bass. There's nothing wrong with the bass it just needs maintaining. I appreciate what you're saying about being poor, you can learn to do all of these things yourself for free on the internet, and there's lots of info on here!!. Just like you can service your car yourself if you can't afford a mechanic - the car still needs servicing though either way! A bass is considerably easier to maintain than a car though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Read this carefully a couple of times: [url="http://www.jerzydrozdbasses.com/akcndfr54jdhrei567/Ultimate_Guide_ver100.pdf"]http://www.jerzydrozdbasses.com/akcndfr54jdhrei567/Ultimate_Guide_ver100.pdf[/url] You're doing something wrong, the saddle has to move back and forward (closer tothe bridge or the neck) even if it needs to be pushed in place with the screwdriver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 [quote name='wishface' timestamp='1346853422' post='1794060'] It's clearly a low budget instrument. Im' sure their more expensive instruments are much better. I'm not slagging them off. I've had this bass for ten years. I just would like to know what to expect from the instrument. It is what it is. I've managed to improve the intonation somewhat on the E, and i've lowered the action a bit more. Given that I pick over the pickup I can't lower it too much. I think it's probably as good as it's going to get without getting into looking more deeply, such as examining the truss rod which I'm not going to do. To be honest the tuning test for intonation didn't produce wildly divergent results, to my ears the fretted 12th and the harmonic on each string sounded identical anyway. Thanks for all the help [/quote] you shouldn't hear the difference on the 12th fret harmonic, to intonate properly you need to be using a cromatic tuner so you can set it as close as possible to the root with just one or two cents of offset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdowner Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 Looks like the action is quite high (from the photos) so you might be in need to some work on the setup anyway - playing with a very high action is a real pain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 [quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1346854589' post='1794075'] you shouldn't hear the difference on the 12th fret harmonic, to intonate properly you need to be using a cromatic tuner so you can set it as close as possible to the root with just one or two cents of offset. [/quote] Really? I've always done it with the fretted/harmonic 12th fret method... Have I been doing it wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 [quote name='Conan' timestamp='1346856788' post='1794093'] Really? I've always done it with the fretted/harmonic 12th fret method... Have I been doing it wrong? [/quote] No, not wrong, i also use the 12th fret/harmonic , i'm only refering to using a cromatic tuner instead of relying solely on our ears. When i intonate i start with open string / fretted 12th and then i pass on to fretted 12th / 12th harmonic. I find that i get better results this way down to -/+ 1 cent offset. cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishface Posted September 5, 2012 Author Share Posted September 5, 2012 I'm sure I could learn to adjust the truss, but that's heavy duty work. I'd have to take the neck off and, assuming that specialist tools aren't required, monkey around! Bit of a risk. I'd rather have this bass than no bass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wishface Posted September 5, 2012 Author Share Posted September 5, 2012 [quote name='lowdowner' timestamp='1346854972' post='1794079'] Looks like the action is quite high (from the photos) so you might be in need to some work on the setup anyway - playing with a very high action is a real pain [/quote] indeed. i have never liked high action. but then i dislike fretbuzz.But which is worse...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razze06 Posted September 5, 2012 Share Posted September 5, 2012 [quote name='wishface' timestamp='1346845218' post='1793901'] ... I also think the E string sounds louder than the other strings. It just feels as if the E is on a different bass entirely really. I can't adequately explain it... [/quote] i have the same problem with one of my basses. Different strings make a huge difference there. Lowering the pickup on that side can also help. Rotosounds produced a much quieter sound from the E string than Ernie Ball slinkies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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