When is a covers band not a covers band?

[Bilbo]

[quote name='mep' timestamp='1346933656' post='1794964']
We quiet often do covers of covers, so what does that make us?
[/quote]

Factory workers...

[BILL POSTERS]

Theres loads of bands covering covers of covers, that dont mention who its by, if its old, or a bit obscure punters dont know when its a cover, or maybe a few recognise the odd one. But mostly, unless the rest of the set is the same old stuff like Mustng Sal, or Honky Tonk Women, punters will assume you wrote it.

Up to you to put em right of course.

How many punters think Jagger/Richard wrote Route 66, or Lynott wrote Whiskey in the Jar ?
And how many actually really care ? theyre just there to have a good time.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='BILL POSTERS' timestamp='1346943880' post='1795147']
Theres loads of bands covering covers of covers, that dont mention who its by, if its old, or a bit obscure punters dont know when its a cover, or maybe a few recognise the odd one. [/quote]

Good call. I do lead vocals on a couple of songs which usually go down really well with the audience (note the modesty, OK?) but maybe one in a thousand could name the band or artiste wot wrote 'em.

As it happens, one is by Climax Blues Band (not one of their few hits, either) and the other is by Johnny Johnson (once Chuck Berry's piano player).

[Bilbo]

So what you are saying is that tunes that people don't know go down well even though they don't know them? I have to say that is my experience too. I see no reason to play other people's stuff other than as a path to quick gigging without having to write anything. If musos across the board worked as hard on the craft of composition/song writing as they seem to do on 'stagecraft', costunes and Swedish chuffin' accents, they may have material that is as good as or even better than the covers they play.

And they can get royalties!

I've got a go now; I have a gig.

[seashell]

[quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1346932325' post='1794932']
Covers? Original? Does it matter? I really don't care as long as I like to play them and someone else likes to hear them. (or , indeed, if someone else is playing them and I like to hear them).
[/quote]

That pretty well sums it up for me.

On the subject of covers of covers... I have to admit there are some famous versions of songs which I didn't even know were covers. Red Balloon by the Small Faces is an example of something I recently tried to learn, and only realised it was written by Tim Hardin when I googled it. There must be dozens of others I don't even know about. But I digress, as usual..

[BassTractor]

[quote name='seashell' timestamp='1346946538' post='1795199']
On the subject of covers of covers...
[/quote]

Another digression then: Colin Blunstone was quite amused some years back that he and Rod Argent often were asked why they did that old Santana song "She's Not There" in concerts.

best,
bert

[BILL POSTERS]

Just a thought. But what about 'Standards' that were made famous by more than one artiste, none of whom wrote it. As were a lot of early rock n roll & 60s pop songs.

If you play Leiber and Stoller numbers, for example, which were not recorded by the composer and have been done by countless others. is that still playing covers ? If it does, then does it follow that the The Coasters for example, were a covers band ?

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='BILL POSTERS' timestamp='1346947754' post='1795228']
Just a thought. But what about 'Standards' that were made famous by more than one artiste, none of whom wrote it. As were a lot of early rock n roll & 60s pop songs.

If you play Leiber and Stoller numbers, for example, which were not recorded by the composer and have been done by countless others. is that still playing covers ? If it does, then does it follow that the The Coasters for example, were a covers band ?
[/quote]
These are covers:


These are coasters:

[EssentialTension]

... and this is Lieber and Stoller writing a cover for Elvis:

[stingrayPete1977]

I still don't see the confusion, even if a famous person or band does a version of someone else's song it's a cover. It's black and white in my opinion

[chris_b]

People have been listening to covers for a long time.

Back in the day no concert could finish without a rendition of Greensleeves. It must have been the Tudor Mustang Sally.

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1346950595' post='1795288']
I still don't see the confusion, even if a famous person or band does a version of someone else's song it's a cover. It's black and white in my opinion
[/quote]

So to go back to the post above yours, - was Elvis just a covers a singer when he sang Heartbreak Hotel? He didn't write it so I guess he must have been.
Does Elvis actually write anything?

If a band does a song that was written by one of the members, does that mean that the rest of the band are playing a cover?

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1346955142' post='1795349']
So to go back to the post above yours, - was Elvis just a covers a singer when he sang Heartbreak Hotel? He didn't write it so I guess he must have been.
Does Elvis actually write anything?

If a band does a song that was written by one of the members, does that mean that the rest of the band are playing a cover?
[/quote]
... and I guess good old Elton must be doing original music but only covering the lyrics.


And that Frank SInatra, he must have been just another covers band.

Edited September 6, 2012 by EssentialTension

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1346946099' post='1795187']
So what you are saying is that tunes that people don't know go down well even though they don't know them? I have to say that is my experience too. I see no reason to play other people's stuff other than as a path to quick gigging without having to write anything. If musos across the board worked as hard on the craft of composition/song writing as they seem to do on 'stagecraft', costunes and Swedish chuffin' accents, they may have material that is as good as or even better than the covers they play.

And they can get royalties!

I've got a go now; I have a gig.
[/quote]

How did you you get to your gig Bilbo? I hope that you didn't drive a car that someone else had designed. That's just taking a short cut to mobility, when with enough hard work you could design and build your own.

Consider yourself lucky that you are able to compose. Lots of people are great players without being able to compose, others can compose without being particularly good players. I'm not much good at playing, but can't compose to save my life. Should that mean that I'm not allowed to play anything either?

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1346955336' post='1795353']
... and I guess good old Elton must be doing original music but only covering the lyrics.


And that Frank SInatra, he must have been just another covers band.
[/quote]

There's hundreds of them!

[BILL POSTERS]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1346949457' post='1795266']
... and this is Lieber and Stoller writing a cover for Elvis:

[/quote]

I dont see a pen anywhere. They could be reading the daily mail - or maybe the U.S Male...

And what about a number written by someone who never records it, and different artistes release it in different territories at roughly the same time. Who is covering, and who is the original artiste.
Cilla Black/Dionne Warwicks Anyone who had a heart for example. Big hits at more or less the same time.

Although some pedants will say warwicks was out a month or so before blacks i expect But you get the point..

[BILL POSTERS]

[quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1346955142' post='1795349']
Does Elvis actually write anything?

[/quote]

Not recently.

Spends his time DE-composing these days I expect.

Edited September 6, 2012 by BILL POSTERS

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='BILL POSTERS' timestamp='1346956310' post='1795373']
Cilla Black/Dionne Warwicks Anyone who had a heart for example. Big hits at more or less the same time.
[/quote]
... and written by Burt Bacharach and the recently deceased Hal David.

[oggiesnr]

I'm an old folkie so by general definition everything I do is a cover but I can point you to countless versions of the same song which sound and feel totally different.

Steve

[TimR]

Strictly speaking I suppose you are only covering a tune if it has been previously recorded.

I suppose in the case of Cilla Black/Diane Warwick they are both recording a tune written by someone else and each of them could be considered as the original recording artist.

It always makes me laugh when people say they do Hard to Handle, but the do the Black Crows version, not the Otis Redding version. A quick glance at wiki tells me that loads of artists have covered it and Otis didn't write it alone.

It's all semantics. A song is a song, doesn't matter who wrote it as long as they get some credit or, more importantly, the person recording it doesn't take the credit.

Regards the playing someone else's tune is lazy comment. There are very few good singer/songwriters out there that can perform songs to their best. Some songwriters even write songs with someone in mind to sing the song.

Imagine if every west end musical starred Tim Rice and Andrew Loyd Webber in the leading roles!

Edited September 6, 2012 by TimR

[stingrayPete1977]

See what your all doing is getting confused with someone being the writer or composer or whatever you want to call them and just being a singer, in the same way that I am a bass player they are singers. It doesn't stop you being allowed or able to write and compose your own material alongside. If you have heard the song in any other form and that gave you the initial idea and it contains the same lyrics or distinctive melody it's a cover, end of.

This thread has a whiff of people feeling that they should get some recognition for putting a different spin on other peoples songs in the dog and gun, If you feel that it takes away some of your right to call yourself a proper musician or hurts your ego in some way because you can't lay claim to any original work I can't really help other than to say have a go and see what you can come up with.

[spinynorman]

So, before the 1960s the assumption was song writers would be employed to write songs, often a lyricist would write the lyrics and a composer the music. Then singers and bands (proper bands with horns) would play the songs. Popular songs would be played by several bands and if you wanted to dance at your Ladies' Night you would employ a local band to play a selection of these popular songs. We now know this was lazy, and what they should have done was make the local band leader compose and arrange some songs of his own and play those, even if they weren't popular.

In the 1960s someone decided to cut out the middle man and let a load of scruffy lads write their own songs, despite knowing little about music and only being able to pass on the tune to other musicians by strumming a guitar and humming. Although this deprived many future composers and lyricists of a living, it was a great leap forward and laid the foundations for Elton John, who might otherwise have been stuck in a semi in Pinner, writing music for other people.

[TimR]

SpinyNorman is right, to some extent.

I'm sure there were band leaders - I'm guessing Glen Miller who toured with their own bands and wrote their own material.

[Happy Jack]

Just because James Stewart shouted "Pennsylvania 65 - 0 - 0 - 0" down a telephone line at June Allyson doesn't mean that's what actually happened.

[Bilbo]

Ellington wrote his own book, Strayhorn, Mulligan, Parker/Gillespie, Mingus etc etc. All the best artists mostly write their own stuff whilst most of the chessy dross is factory produced. Gotta tell you something.

(To be frank; I love composing etc so much I can't see why people wouldn't want to do it. More to the point, I am not very good at it but it's not the kill, it's the thrill of the chase!! They more I try, the better the tunes get. I don't think it is any harder than learning to play the bass; you jsut have to keep practising).