Basses that keep their value?

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='Rick's Fine '52' timestamp='1347033524' post='1796297']
Regarding the comment about the Wal increasing in value, I would disagree, a wal bought in 1986 for £800, now worth £2500, in real terms is still a loss, I mean £800 in 1986 is alot more than £2500 is today.
[/quote]

How so? After approx 25 years with inflation at about 3% your £800 would be about £1600-£1700... it'd be interesting to calculate what a new Fender Jazz should cost today compared to in 86 (using the 3% inflation) against what say a Warwick cost back then!

[RhysP]

[quote name='Shonks' timestamp='1347015236' post='1795983']
An unplayed bass kept for investment is sacrilegious.
[/quote]

The large majority of the really rare vintage guitars & basses that are sold aren't bought my musicians, they're bought by rich professionals as investments. A lot of them probably never get played.

[Pete Academy]

It's all dependent on the market at the time. It's not been good for vintage instruments for a while. I bought my Steinberger L2 in 1983 for 950 (full retail was around 1100). I decided to sell it a couple of years ago, as I never played it and I fancied a nice Jazz. I advertised it at 2000, thinking I'd easily get that. No way. I ended up selling it for 1400, and bought a nice 78 Jazz for the same price.

To me, Wals seem to be the only basses to really have gone up in value. Or maybe Jaydee?

On a final note, I bought an Alembic 20th anniversary brand new in 1989. They were 2000 and limited to 200 pieces worldwide. A few years back they were appearing on eBay for 1500. Even limited editions struggle to go up.

[TheGreek]

I think what the OP is really asking is what is likely to give him a fair return as an investment - for this to happen you'd need to look for something fairly limited in number, of good build quality, played by well known musicians and built by a renowned luthier.

Realistically that's something like an early Wal, Jaydee, Status, Sei or GB...[i][b]then go and kill the builder so that no more are produced[/b][/i]..

[Rick's Fine '52]

[quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1347034968' post='1796324']
How so? After approx 25 years with inflation at about 3% your £800 would be about £1600-£1700... it'd be interesting to calculate what a new Fender Jazz should cost today compared to in 86 (using the 3% inflation) against what say a Warwick cost back then!
[/quote]

Not sure about your method of calculation? Things have more than doubled in the last 25 years, houses are probably 6 times, collectable cars, paintings similarly so.

Difficult to compare Fender Jazz's from the 80's, as there are so many different ones, with widely variable desirability levels, and values. For example, I paid £175 for my first series JV Jazz in 1984, because the shop (Along with me), thought it was a jap squier, its now worth £1500. A 1982 Fullerton reissue was £750 in 1982, and is probably worth a similar £1500, or a bit less, vastly different appreciations there.

Appreciation and value is usually based around exclusivity, and desirability, then condition and originality come into play. If demand far outweighs the supply, then things tend to become pricey, and increase in value, thats just a general rule, but it generally works. 50's Kay basses are quite rare in nice condition, but they are not desirable, so you need all these factors to play a part, and the higher the rate of each factor, the higher the appreciation. A '60 stack knob jazz has top rate exclusivity, top rate desirability, and if its in top rate condition, it will fetch top prices. The formula pretty much works when trying to value anything.

I know the GM of Audi UK, and he is contacting people he sold top Audi's to last year (I'm talking 60k+ Audi's), and offering them the same price they paid for it, because he has buyers willing to pay more than list, so they dont have to wait 24 weeks for a new one, demonstrates supply and demand on top end gear, completely smashing the myth that cars lose a fortune as soon as you drive them off the forecourt (Although with regular cars, i guess that still applies, as with basses and most stuff).

[gareth]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1347035310' post='1796326']
The large majority of the really rare vintage guitars & basses that are sold aren't bought my musicians, they're bought by rich professionals as investments. A lot of them probably never get played.
[/quote]

so true and so sad

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Rick's Fine '52' timestamp='1347033524' post='1796297']
Regarding the comment about the Wal increasing in value, I would disagree, a wal bought in 1986 for £800, now worth £2500, in real terms is still a loss, I mean £800 in 1986 is alot more than £2500 is today.

[/quote]

according to the online inflation calculators £800 in 1986 would be £2012 today. While somethings like houses have shot up, other things, like mass produced bass guitars are way more affordable now.

I can't think of something you could be sure would keep it's value. My warwick I bought cheap, so that will keep it's value- but you could apply that to anything that goes out of fashion at some point. I think buying to try and make an investment isn't really going to work for most people - but what you going to go for? Rick's two JV's wouldn't be a bad shout though, (ask nicely you can add mine for the entire collection!) but then you need other people wanting them for them to be desirable- and then you get into 'collectors' territory and.... well, my JV was bought by accident- not cos I thought it would be worth anything- at the time I thought I had over payed but got an amazing bass (thanks stevie) now the price seems to be going up... and suddenly I'm more precious about playing it- and for me that looses a bit of the fun.

[Shonks]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1347029724' post='1796228']
Idea of this thread was to figure what is gonna be selling underpriced, so I can sit on them for a while: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/134417-what-are-really-unfashionable-at-the-moment/"]http://basschat.co.u...-at-the-moment/[/url]
[/quote]you've created a monster

[paulconnolly]

Not sure what you'd buy now as an investment but I wish I'd kept my old Westone Thunder 1A. They seem to be going for about what I payed for mine back in '83 or '84.

[Rick's Fine '52]

[quote name='gareth' timestamp='1347041034' post='1796406']
so true and so sad
[/quote]

In my experience the opposite is in fact the case, with collectors I know anyway.

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1347036164' post='1796337']Realistically that's something like an early Wal, Jaydee, Status, Sei or GB...[i][b]then go and kill the builder so that no more are produced[/b][/i]..
[/quote]

The builder of my favourite bass (John Birch) died two days after he last contacted me, it's last valuation for insurance was £4600; I'll not hold my breathe waiting for someone to offer me that figure for it, even if JayDee finished it off for me.

[TheGreek]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1347047108' post='1796511']
The builder of my favourite bass (John Birch) died two days after he last contacted me, it's last valuation for insurance was £4600;
[/quote]

So, had he died in suspicious circumstances you'd be expecting a visit from PC Hopper...

Seriously though..my commiserations to his family[size=1]...(but let's not hijack this thread)[/size]

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='TheGreek' timestamp='1347048500' post='1796525']Seriously though..my commiserations to his family[size=1]...(but let's not hijack this thread)[/size]
[/quote]

It was over 10 years ago, I think they're as over it as they will be.......... meanwhile back at the thread ....

[stef030]

ha now you may ask,
bought my 69 jazz in 1974 for £275,
what it worth today,dont know,dont really care,I am the second owner
I have the original strap,case,sales receipt,everything,
the strap buckle has started to rust,the case has a wonky clip
,the body has a few dings,but plays fantastically well,sounds awesome
and will stay with me to the grave,been offered silly money for it before
but I think after all this time it would be like losing a limb,




cheers
stef

[Judo Chop]

[quote name='stef030' timestamp='1347091344' post='1796808']
ha now you may ask,
bought my 69 jazz in 1974 for £275,
what it worth today,dont know,dont really care,I am the second owner
I have the original strap,case,sales receipt,everything,
the strap buckle has started to rust,the case has a wonky clip
,the body has a few dings,but plays fantastically well,sounds awesome
and will stay with me to the grave,been offered silly money for it before
but I think after all this time it would be like losing a limb,




cheers
stef
[/quote]

I'll swap you my Squier for it, and a packet of beef flavoured Monster Munch to sweeten the deal

[paul torch]

[quote name='funkypenguin' timestamp='1347026833' post='1796183']
IMO you buy a bass because you want to play it, not as an investment. Everyone i know who has bought a bass as an investment has ended up selling it within a couple of months for more or less the price they bought it for. Bass guitars are meant to be played, not to sit in their cases while their owners wait for them to go up in value. If you want to make an investment, buy a painting, not a bass
[/quote]

I know someone who has an attic full of Ricks and Taurus bass pedals for investment, not played.

[molan]

I think if you buy 'sensibly' on the used market then it should be easy to retain the value of any 'investment'.

You have to go for quality brands and not just something that's in fashion at the moment (although sometimes this can be hard to predict). Garish colours and full custom build basses tend to devalue & can be buggers to sell.

For some brands the market is at absolute rock bottom at the moment so buying one of these now will almost certainly see an increase in value within your 10 year time bracket.

Some of the 'big name' US exotic brands have soared in value over the past 5-10 years. A few years back you could pick up a high end Alembic or Fodera etc for way less than they sell for now. To a degree this is because these brands have very high demand (and limited supply) in the big global markets like USA & Japan. Because of this supply / demand scenario they've also increased the price of their new basses substantially which makes their older used basses appear more attractive as well.

[funkypenguin]

[quote name='paul torch' timestamp='1347096196' post='1796860'] I know someone who has an attic full of Ricks and Taurus bass pedals for investment, not played. [/quote]

And those basses could be being played. Its a real waste to have them sat gathering dust in an attic....

[Rick's Fine '52]

[quote name='funkypenguin' timestamp='1347140990' post='1797446']
And those basses could be being played. Its a real waste to have them sat gathering dust in an attic....
[/quote]

People can do what they want with their stuff, I'm sure they have others they play. If, by keeping them, it means others can play these vintage gems in another 20 years time, then its fine with me. If someone had a rare, historical instrument, worth £15k, and played it at the dog and duck on jam night,that could get irreversibly damaged at any moment, then that would be a bigger crime to me.

[funkypenguin]

[quote name='Rick's Fine '52' timestamp='1347143369' post='1797466']
People can do what they want with their stuff, I'm sure they have others they play. If, by keeping them, it means others can play these vintage gems in another 20 years time, then its fine with me. If someone had a rare, historical instrument, worth £15k, and played it at the dog and duck on jam night,that could get irreversibly damaged at any moment, then that would be a bigger crime to me.
[/quote]

People can do whatever they want with their stuff, im not disputing that. Instruments (IMHO) are meant to be played thats all, whether a £200 squier or a £20000 Fodera, Its all the same

[gareth]

[quote name='Rick's Fine '52' timestamp='1347143369' post='1797466']
People can do what they want with their stuff, I'm sure they have others they play. If, by keeping them, it means others can play these vintage gems in another 20 years time, then its fine with me. If someone had a rare, historical instrument, worth £15k, and played it at the dog and duck on jam night,that could get irreversibly damaged at any moment, then that would be a bigger crime to me.
[/quote]

oh come on lets get real - these are musical instruments FFS - they are built to be played - its a crime to keep them in their cases - like keeping F40 ferraris off the race track

[Rick's Fine '52]

[quote name='funkypenguin' timestamp='1347145214' post='1797488']
People can do whatever they want with their stuff, im not disputing that. Instruments (IMHO) are meant to be played thats all, whether a £200 squier or a £20000 Fodera, Its all the same
[/quote]


Yes, in the case of a £20k Fodera, I'd agree, because thats been recently made, and bought, to be played. In the case of a £20k 50's Fender, its different, it was made to be played in 1952, not 60 years later, it has now become a highly regarded, and collectible vintage piece of history, and should be treated as such, and respected as such.
I've said it before, similarly, cars are meant to be driven, but you wouldnt drive your super rare £2m '65 Daytona Spyder to Tesco, and leave it in the car park next to the trolley bay would you? Unless you're a total knob of course...same applies to anything else like this, including instruments.

[Rick's Fine '52]

[quote name='gareth' timestamp='1347145603' post='1797491']
oh come on lets get real - these are musical instruments FFS - they are built to be played - its a crime to keep them in their cases - like keeping F40 ferraris off the race track
[/quote]

Same thing as i said to funkypenguin. I don't think[i] your [/i]attitude is very real at all. You obviously don't own a £20k bass.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Rick's Fine '52' timestamp='1347143369' post='1797466']
People can do what they want with their stuff, I'm sure they have others they play. If, by keeping them, it means others can play these vintage gems in another 20 years time, then its fine with me. If someone had a rare, historical instrument, worth £15k, and played it at the dog and duck on jam night,that could get irreversibly damaged at any moment, then that would be a bigger crime to me.
[/quote]
but equally if I had £x thousand to pay and had to choose between an instrument sat in a hard case for 20 years in a loft, or one of yours sat in your house and played everyso often I know your one would be looked after and playable.

Mind you when you get above a certain point playability isn't the point is it? you wouldn't buy a '50's fender to gig regularly (baring in mind for the last few years i've been carrying my bass in a gig bag while cycling.....

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Rick's Fine '52' timestamp='1347145770' post='1797494']
Same thing as i said to funkypenguin. I don't think[i] your [/i]attitude is very real at all. You obviously don't own a £20k bass.
[/quote] no but he's got a pretty tasty looking red jazz bass