Ideal stage positioning for a bass amplifier

[Muppet]

Seeing Dave’s (dave_bass5) discussion on sitting his cab on a wooden floor with or without rubber feet and also the rear vs front ported cabs question on the Ashdown ABM115 thread I’m going to raise the question about how and where you should place your cab in;

a. In relation to the rest of your band
b. In relation to the room you are playing in

Thing I have been thinking about it whether the cab should be up against a wall, in a corner, in line with the kick drum, with or without casters etc, raised up on crates (!)….

Any good starting points to always bear in mind or any complete no-no's (like I was always told not to stick the bass amp behind the drummer...)

Edited June 18, 2007 by Muppet

[d-basser]

when i was gigging i put it right next to the drummer but that was only because we had no monitors and it was the only way the drummer could tell what was going on

[carlosfandango]

For small/medium gigs without proper monitoring I'd say:
- Amp slightly behind drummer, maybe angled towards the drummer
- me? normally next to the hi-hat or whereever I can hear the kick clearly...mostly in front of /to the side of the drummer
- I also normally run the bass through the PA and try to keep the sound on stage free from muddy low end...just to make sure everyone can hear what I'm doing
- If the stage is tiny I try to angle the cab upwards to avoid playing to my knees....some gaffer tape will keep the head in place!

[alexclaber]

This is a minor obsession of mine. There are two main issues to deal with:

1. Maximising low frequency output
2. Ensuring the band (and audience if going without PA support) can hear the mids and highs clearly

The solution to point 1 is to position the cab in the corner of the room on the floor. This maximises reinforcement from near boundaries and minimises cancellation from distant boundaries. In a perfect world (i.e playing in a concrete bunker) you will get 18dB more sensitivity below 150Hz. In the real world it will be less (as the walls and floor will both absorb and pass sound energy instead of reflecting it 100%) but it will still be VERY significant.

The solution to point 2 is to position the cab so the speakers are on-axis or within 30 degrees of on-axis for those that need to hear them. Generally this means getting the cab up off the floor and/or tilting it, and also positioning it so it can fire diagonally across the stage or room from a corner.

The final issue is one of interaction with the PA. If you have a reasonably powerful bass rig and you're playing smaller venues it makes a lot of sense to leave the PA for the vocals, guitar and kick, run the rest of the drums acoustic, and let the bass rig carry the house. This avoids negative interaction between multiple low frequency sources. If the PA subs are carrying the house bass sound then keep your stage volume (particularly your lows) quieter to avoid interaction.

Ultimate decisions depend very much on the individuals in the band - in an ideal world everyone will be able to hear their preferred mix, which in my case is the vocals loudest, bass fairly loud and drums, sax and guitar balanced but a notch quieter. I've found that if someone cannot hear themselves that bit louder than the rest of the mix then they'll end up playing too loud in response - which is why all guitarists should learn to point their cabs at their ears, then they'll stop turning up!

Alex

[bass_ferret]

In my experience there is not usually much choice of where to put your rig - specially in pubs where there is usually only room for the drums. I usually put it just behind the drummer but sometimes it has to go next to him on small stages. On one stage I have to put it in front of the drummer because the reinforcement shags the sound completely.

[ped]

I used to like having my amp to my left hand side and the drummer on my right. Worked for me every time. However, now I go in ear and don't have any problems with all that kerfuffle! Its heaven!

[rodl2005]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='19800' date='Jun 18 2007, 05:30 PM']This is a minor obsession of mine. There are two main issues to deal with:

I've found that if someone cannot hear themselves that bit louder than the rest of the mix then they'll end up playing too loud in response - which is why all guitarists should learn to point their cabs at their ears, then they'll stop turning up!

Alex[/quote]


+1 ALL guitarists SHOULD KNOW this!!!!! If not going thru PA then it's different of course.

I usually set up next 2 drummer-either side doesn't worry me(we got a pedantic & anal keyboardist - so we ALL gotta set up basically to 'please' him!!!!!) I like keeping in next to drums-for obvious reasons...hearing kick etc.... but also-if not whole band thru PA- to keep the bas & drums as a "tight unit" together.
Sure having a wall behind is better, in a corner-wall on 2 sides=better still!
Often we have to play where there is only glass behind us-in which case we definately try & close any thick curtains-if any. Then I try & stack as many bass, keyboard,guitar, lead, etc , cases behind my rig.

[Kiwi]

With 17 people on stage (including a percussionist) it was usually a case of sticking the amp where it fitted. However, having an angled 380w wedge combo made a huge difference to hearing myself compared to the 600w or so 2x 2x10 set up I had before. I swear with the wedge it sounded like the mids and highs were reflected off low ceilings when I listened at the back of some venues! Great stuff!

I also always got lots of boom when I placed the amp in a corner which muddied things up so I tried to elevate the amp when I could and give it some space. Really didn't like playing any venues that ran a PA with huge subs, like at the Dome, Tufnell Park. I ended up unable to hear myself because the lows were out of phase with my amp. Turning up didn't help!

[Muppet]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='20041' date='Jun 19 2007, 09:46 AM']With 17 people on stage (including a percussionist) it was usually a case of sticking the amp where it fitted. However, having an angled 380w wedge combo made a huge difference to hearing myself compared to the 600w or so 2x 2x10 set up I had before.[/quote]

Steve- do you use it like a monitor i.e. facing you, or behind you as in the conventional sense?

[john_the_bass]

Usually behind me on a couple of crates, location depends on

i) how much room have i got?
ii) how long are my leads (i don't want to have miles of lead all over the stage)

Most of the venues we play have got proper monitoring so placing it so that it can be heard isn't so much of an issue

as long as the band can hear it and i can hear it and reach it, i'm happy.
on a stage, the three of us (guitar, guitar/vox, bass/vox) are up at the front with front man in the middle, he's left handed and has already taken a chip out of my precision headstock so i want to stand on his left hand side, which sometimes causes a problem for the guitarist on the far right of the stage with regard to hearing what i'm doing, but i can't say it's ever been a problem or something i thought needs addressing.

[Muppet]

[quote name='john_the_bass' post='20054' date='Jun 19 2007, 10:05 AM']but i can't say it's ever been a problem or something i thought needs addressing.[/quote]

You're lucky in that you always have in house PAs. If you have your own [vocal] PA and rely on your bass amp (and guitar and drums)for FOH sound then it's quite critical

[john_the_bass]

[quote name='Muppet' post='20067' date='Jun 19 2007, 10:51 AM']You're lucky in that you always have in house PAs. If you have your own [vocal] PA and rely on your bass amp (and guitar and drums)for FOH sound then it's quite critical[/quote]

absolutely agree - we're not the sort of band that have to go and run our own gigs or do our own sound - we're playing the local toilet circuit which, fortunately have pretty decent sound systems and engineers.
I'm sure it would be a totally different story if we went and did our own thing.

[Kiwi]

[quote name='Muppet' post='20050' date='Jun 19 2007, 09:57 AM']Steve- do you use it like a monitor i.e. facing you, or behind you as in the conventional sense?[/quote]

Usually behind me if the stage is deep enough, otherwise to one side preferably angled towards the drummer.

[lowhand_mike]

i usually set up to the right of the drummer (left side of stage as you look at it) with the amp face within 2.8feet of the wall behind it if possible, this was a tip from BFM to stop phase cancelation or something and increases dB. the amp ins normally on 2 crates one crate high, this way i can hear it and so can the drummer, the 2 guitarists can hear what they need. it is also run through the pa on a low mix with the bass drum. i've never actuall yheard what it sounds like (cos i'm paying) but the singer and anyone else htere have always said it sounds very good and clear.

at the weekend though i had to set up next to the drummer on the other side and it all sounded odd, no real reason why it should though, geuss you just get used to things.

Edited June 19, 2007 by lowhand_mike

[andy_$$]

Depending on how much PA support I have, I either sit my combo raised on a couple of boxes behind me, between myself and the drummer, or to the side of the stage, pointing across to myself and the drummer.
I think that makes sense!

[peted]

I'm usually on the right hand side of the stage as the crowd see the band. I try and put my amp as far into a corner as possible as this seems to do wonders for the projection. I've also recently found that I hate the sound coming out of my amp if I can't feel it through the floor in some way. I played a gig where the stage was so small it was basically a drum riser but there was just enough room to fit the amps on there with him and I stood in front of it. Because I was on different flooring I couldn't feel the amp through my feet and it all sounded wrong. Strange that.

[bassbloke]

I always try and place mine in the corner of the stage wedged between two walls and angled sightly, as per Alex Claber's suggestion. To be honest I rarely have problem achieving this; the average musician gravitates towards the centre of the stage, so when I offer to position my stuff right in the corner, the request is rarely refused

[lukeward2004]

I try to place my rig so that it is elevated to at least come up to my shoulders, as I find that the sound seems to project across the room over distance this way. It also means I can hear myself if the house monitors arent up to much.

It ultimately depends on the room and stage size, but I would try to elevate the amp off the floor whenever I can.