Clip on mic' and small bass amp for bluegrass band

[robin clark]

Hi,

I've dropped into this forum to ask for some advice on clip on mic's and a small amp for the bass player in our bluegrass band.

First a bit of background. Our bass player is in his 70s and started playing about 5 years ago. He has the worlds worst 3/4 cheap plywood bass but with some good strings we have is singing along OKish. We have a 5 piece bluegrass band and at gigs we tend to use a single mic for 4 of us (guitar, banjo, dobro, violin) and a mic' for the bass into the p/a. The mic' for the bass has not been very successful as I think we have found the only 70 year old in the UK with ADHD - he can't bloody keep still so he keeps knocking the mic' over!!! Also, he doesn't understand that the p/a is there for the audience not for us on stage and complains he is not loud enough because he can't hear the bass in the p/a (if I turn him up enough for him to hear the bass bouncing off the back walls of the venue then the balance is way, way out.) We don't use foldback at all because we stand close enough around one mic' (large diaphram condenser) to hear each other. If the audience is loud, we just stand closer together!!!!!!

We played a wedding on Saturday and rather than put the bass through the p/a I ran an SM57 into a little Marshal AS50 acoustic guitar amp and had it as a backline amp for the bass player. It worked really well - he could hear himself, he played tighter and didn't complain about not being loud enough. BUT - he still kept knocking his bass mic' over as he leaned forward to sing harmonies into the main mic'!!!!! If I needed more bass out front (which we didn't on Saturday) I could have easily run a line out from the AS50 amp to the desk or just put another SM57 in front of the speaker.

He has tried a pick-up on his bass and it sounded awful through the p/a - so there is no way I can get him to buy one again. It is not an argument worth having as his mind is set. He wants a clip on mic'. I've had a look around and the TBone Ovid one from Thomann with the bass clip sytem won't break the bank.

[url="http://www.tbone-mics.com/en/mikrofone/ovid-serie/"]http://www.tbone-mics.com/en/mikrofone/ovid-serie/[/url]

It's a cardiod so hopefully it won't feedback at the volumes we play at. It is not going to be great quality but I'm hoping I can position it to get the best from a bad instrument. Front of house won't be a problem and I could just go straight into the desk with the mic' - but it would be much better for us all (emotionally if not physically) if I could plug the mic' into a small amp sitting on stage behind us and then just take a feed from that to the p/a.

So what about a small amp to run the mic' into (through a pre-amp with 48v phantom like say the Berhinger Tube100 Ultragain). Should I get a little bass amp for him like the Line 6 Lowdown Studio 110. I can sort of imagine that working OK behind us in terms of size but I'm not too sure about the advantage of using a bass guitar amp with a clip on mic' rather that say an acoustic guitar amp or a keyboard amp.

Any thoughts are welcome. I've had a look through old posts and there is little about mic's for stage work as it seems most of the posters were working at way higher stage volumes than we use.

Thanks, Robin

[thisnameistaken]

At that price it's worth a punt surely.

You don't necessarily need a bass amp (if it will be used as a pretty low-volume stage monitor), but it might be an idea to look for something wedge-shaped so it's firing at your bassist's ears rather than his knees. Hartke do some wedge-shaped bass combos but I don't know if they'd meet your budget. Or a smaller combo can be placed on a table or something I suppose.

I can understand him wanting some monitoring it's a stress playing double bass without it, and as the bass player you're in the worst position in the room to actually hear the stupid thing...

Edited September 10, 2012 by thisnameistaken

[Beer of the Bass]

That looks like an interesting mic system for the price. If you do go for it, please report back on how you get on with it.

[robin clark]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I'll order the mic' T-bone Ovid mic' tomorrow. But I'm still a little unsure of what small amp I should run the mic' into? I could go for something like the Hartke A70 or the Line 6 LowDown Studio 110 - a bass amp? Or would a mic' be better put through a mic' input on a small keyboard amp such as the t.amp PA4080KB or the Behringer K450FX?

[tommyjamesallen]

Tell him to buy a H clamp. It's a really good light weight Mic stand that clips onto the bass, so you can close Mic the bass with pretty much any Mic, and you don't have to worry about him knocking the Mic. It works for me. I think I costs about £80. Stick a 57 or 58 in it, problem solved?

[zero9]

I'd be careful with the clip on condenser mics as these are more prone to feedback than an SM57 and you won't get a lot of volume if the amp is nearby. For a simple solution, I've wrapped an SM57 in a small towel / cloth and pushed it behind the tailpiece, which has worked very well.

[Cat Burrito]

I use a shadow pickup that fits into the bridge and doesn't shift. You get the true sound of the bass and it doesn't budge. I only ever plug into the PA with upright bass and it's never been a problem for me

[robin clark]

Many thanks.

I like the idea of the H-clamp and using an SM57. Roger loved the sound I gave him with a 57 into that Marshal AS50 acoustic guitar amp. So perhaps a SM57 into something really simple like a £150ish 10" 150w powered p/a speaker would be a good bet (the ones that will sit various ways up, on a pole, or on their side as a monitor) or a keyboard/multi instrument amp so he could use it for his guitars and banjos too. The H-clamp would also give me lots of options at gigs as I could take the SM57 straight into the desk and run a monitor line back to his powered speaker at bigger venues where we needed bass through the p/a too. Mind you, a little bit more poke off the bass from a powered speaker behind us and it will come through the single central condenser mic' that the rest of us use and not need to go into the desk at all. Come to think of it, that's probably why we balanced so well at the wedding gig on Saturday - the Marshall was being picked up by our large condenser and pumped front of house nicely balanced along with the rest of us!

I can see that the SM57 in a towel is a great trick! But I'm quite happy to spend £80 on some nice bass 'bling' for the old boy and get the H-clamp. I'll talk to him today and see if he likes the idea.

[robin clark]

We tested the SM57 in a towel behind the tailpiece last night and ran it through a 180w powered p/a speaker. The sysyem worked OK but I couldn't really get a nice rounded sound - also I think that I could place the mic better.

Roger liked the idea of the H-clamp so I have ordered one. I have also ordered a Audix D2 mic'.

Does anyone have an idea of what backline amp I should run the D2 in to? It will be a proper 'backline' as it will be placed behind the band. Should I plug the Audix D2 into a bass amp instrument input (through a pre-amp) or would a keyboard amp with an XLR mic input be OK. The aim is to lift the sound of bass on stage and hopefully not have to run it into the p/a (I want it loud enough to be picked up by the single large diaphram condenser mic' the rest of us use as our sole stage amplification) I just want the amp to produce a nice warm reasonably natural sound of a volume to balance with banjo, guitar, dobro, fiddle, mandolin played acoustically. The idea is to 'lift' the sound of a crappy 3/4 bass so it works nicely on stage with the rest of out bluegrass band - but I'm guessing I may need quite a lot of headroom on the amp?