Fancy basses for non fancy players...

[LukeFRC]

hmmmm....

[ead]

Feel The Force of the bass Master Luke. Do not be tempted by the Dark Side.

[TRBboy]

For me the priorities are always: 1. Feel/playability
2. Sound
3. Looks

If it feels really great, and inspires you to play, then it's the right bass for you. If you don't have the bass that feels 100% right in your hands, then you're never going to realise your full potential as a player IMHO. Unless the looks truly repulse you, just go with whatever really does it for you when you play it. As far as sound goes, electronics, etc can be swapped out, as long as it's a well built instrument you'll be able to get a decent sound out of it.

[lowdowner]

Funny one this...

My first bass was my Warwick thumb (a year on now and I have no intention of changing). Compared with playing something like a violin, a cello, or any other type of 'classical' instrument (even a piano for goodness sakes) the cost of a Thumb is way lower even though it's a 'fancy' bass for some folk. I *did* feel a bit of a fraud for a short while as I plucked away (badly) on my roots and fifths, but then I've worked bloody hard to be able to afford one,always wanted one, always thought they looked and sounded the dogs bollox, and i love the way they are made and feel when I play it.

So a year on I'm happy I bought it, still loving it, and I couldn't give a flying f' what anyone else thinks about it - to me it's what a bass is all about

So *ner*

[Mornats]

I think there's weight in the argument that if your basses fanciness outshines your playing then it can inspire you to up your game to match. This may sound silly to some people but having a bass you love picking up and playing is great motivation.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='lowdowner' timestamp='1348037760' post='1808279']
Funny one this...

My first bass was my Warwick thumb (a year on now and I have no intention of changing). Compared with playing something like a violin, a cello, or any other type of 'classical' instrument (even a piano for goodness sakes) the cost of a Thumb is way lower even though it's a 'fancy' bass for some folk. I *did* feel a bit of a fraud for a short while as I plucked away (badly) on my roots and fifths, but then I've worked bloody hard to be able to afford one,always wanted one, always thought they looked and sounded the dogs bollox, and i love the way they are made and feel when I play it.

So a year on I'm happy I bought it, still loving it, and I couldn't give a flying f' what anyone else thinks about it - to me it's what a bass is all about

So *ner*
[/quote] thumbs not a fancy bass in my book. It's a design classic!

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1348080471' post='1809072']
I think there's weight in the argument that if your basses fanciness outshines your playing then it can inspire you to up your game to match. This may sound silly to some people but having a bass you love picking up and playing is great motivation.
[/quote] and in a short time I will be comeing to a youtube channel near you, the double thumb tapping monster!

[jazzyvee]

[quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1348080471' post='1809072']
I think there's weight in the argument that if your basses fanciness outshines your playing then it can inspire you to up your game to match. This may sound silly to some people but having a bass you love picking up and playing is great motivation.
[/quote]

I've in agreement, I only really started playing bass once I saved up enough and got my dream bass. The reward I get from hearing it really inspires me to play. Even if my playing never reaches the status my bass has, I will have had a great time on the journey.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='TRBboy' timestamp='1348005374' post='1808140']
For me the priorities are always: 1. Feel/playability
2. Sound
3. Looks
[/quote]

For me they are all equal.

We are no longer stuck in the 60s or 70s where there were a limited number of quality instrument manufacturers and unless you were a fan of one of their designs the chances were you would have to compromise on at least one attribute.

These days there are thousands of luthiers and manufacturers each with their own ideas as to what makes the perfect bass and somewhere there is the bass for you which has everything right. There is no longer any need to put up with an ugly bass because it has the right sound or playability and conversely you don't need to struggle to overcome the physical limitations of an instrument that looks cool.

[uncle psychosis]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1348135221' post='1809704']
For me they are all equal.

We are no longer stuck in the 60s or 70s where there were a limited number of quality instrument manufacturers and unless you were a fan of one of their designs the chances were you would have to compromise on at least one attribute.

These days there are thousands of luthiers and manufacturers each with their own ideas as to what makes the perfect bass and somewhere there is the bass for you which has everything right. There is no longer any need to put up with an ugly bass because it has the right sound or playability and conversely you don't need to struggle to overcome the physical limitations of an instrument that looks cool.
[/quote]

+567,890,345,672.

Unless you are buying at the real budget end of the market there is absolutely no need to compromise on looks, sound, or playability anymore.

As a firm believer that image is an important part of being in a band, I do believe that some basses look wrong when used for some genres. Its not necessarily to do with cost, either. A Gus bass would work great for a punk band but an ornately carved single cut would probably look completely out of place. Similarly someone playing a pointy BC Rich rock machine in a jazz trio would look a bit odd.

Personally speaking, I prefer understated basses with classic designs. Thats just an aesthetic choice though, nothing to do with whether or not I'm a "fancy" player. Even if I had the chops of a master you wouldn't catch me playing a coffee table bass!

[TRBboy]

I agree with what you guys are saying, you don't have to put up with something completely inappropriate and hideous in this day and age, but I suspect that most players would have to have a custom build to be honestly 100% happy on all three points.

I also think that if you play with confidence, competence and a bit of flair and attitude, you can rock more or less any bass in more or less any situation. Most people will notice what you're playing musically and how much you seem to be enjoying yourself, far more than the instrument itself. Only if there are other bass players in the audience will you get people scrutinizing your instrument.......

[chrismuzz]

This thread needs more pics!

I would contribute, but I only play Peaveys

[Black Coffee]

I have never aspired to any sort of greatness or "here look at me" in what I played because I tried to concentrate on learning to be doing the basics well so that the others you play with can rely on you getting your bit of the sound right every time. Nothing worse than standing with £7,000 worth of wood and electronics around your muffin top and sounding like a total plonker trying to play fancy stuff your chubby little digits can't cope with.
Learn your scales, understand modes, listen to loads of different styles, and watch, listen and learn from others. Accept you will never know it all. Drop characteristics of what you like in to what you play, put away the rest for another day when you might need it.
After 25 years, with encouragement from my long suffering and incredibly supportive wee wife I finally shelled out and bought what I would call a few fancy basses.
I played them and eventually moved them on as nothing played by me was really that much better (for what they cost) than a solid (maybe more basic) good quality bass played consistently well.
What i would call fancy - Rickenbacker laredo, a fretless Ric 4003, Maple 4003 fretted Ric, Warwich thumb BO, couple of stingrays, a 25th anniversary SR5, a Custom shop Fender jazz, a Dingwall ABZ5. What is more basic - Peavey grind 5, Jackson/Charvel, Fender P fretted and fretless, ESP 4 string. Just for the record my Peavey grind 5 was one of my favourite basses from all I had the pleasure of playing.

Now I have a Dingwall ABII in chambered walnut body / bubinga neck which I think is a keeper. It is a top quality bass and has the fanfret system on the neck which I think is incredibly easy to play and makes the B string feel more tight and easy to play quickly. Mutts nutts actually.
It all depends on what you see yourself as, John Entwhistle (not saying he is the greatest, just an example) and other bass virtuosos would sound good playing almost anything because they are just on another level (Flea has said 'its all in how you hit it') , as for me the fancy bass is just my personal pleasure to play. Doesn't make me a genius, but sounds awesome without thumping the strings hard to make yourself heard over 8 other musicians and that's a big bonus for me personally.
At least another 25 years before I can play half of what Entwhistle had forgotten before his untimely demise.

A previous post said a better bass inspires better playing and it's hard to disagree with that. So more practice I guess. so business as usual.

Edited September 22, 2012 by bassman344

[xilddx]

There is a difference for me between Fancy and Stylish. I play simple stuff on a stylish chrome Warwick

I don't like wood finishes at all, but the huge exception to this is the Xylem basses in the Basschat affiliates thread, they are utterly delicious!

[winterfire666]

i dont consider myself a fancy player, but i like my basses to look the business as well as sound awesome, although playability does come 1st
[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1348495916' post='1814304']
There is a difference for me between Fancy and Stylish. I play simple stuff on a stylish chrome Warwick

I don't like wood finishes at all, but the huge exception to this is the Xylem basses in the Basschat affiliates thread, they are utterly delicious!
[/quote]
+1 on xylem, im very picky about my finishes but they are awesome, hopefully mine wont be too long now!!

[xilddx]

[quote name='winterfire666' timestamp='1348496727' post='1814316']
i dont consider myself a fancy player, but i like my basses to look the business as well as sound awesome, although playability does come 1st

+1 on xylem, im very picky about my finishes but they are awesome, hopefully mine wont be too long now!!
[/quote]

Oh man, you're getting one! I think we need a full review when you get a chance mate Is it being built as we speak?

I really want one but it's a little while yet, I'll want a higher spec one so that's a lot of cash. have you seen the ebony top fretless 5 in the thread? Just completely lickable

[winterfire666]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1348497015' post='1814324']


Oh man, you're getting one! I think we need a full review when you get a chance mate Is it being built as we speak?

I really want one but it's a little while yet, I'll want a higher spec one so that's a lot of cash. have you seen the ebony top fretless 5 in the thread? Just completely lickable
[/quote]

i put in an order late feb/early march i think. hes due to start the build in nov so still a wait but getting closer. Iv not limited myself for the spec so theres gonna be piezos, inlays and a lovely black walnut top (unique unusual figuring)etc . There are still some bits to finalize before the build starts though im still considering different neck sizing options but it will be a 33" scale 24 frets. Ill post a full review with pics and video when it arrives.
its gonna be EPIC!

[xilddx]

[quote name='winterfire666' timestamp='1348500004' post='1814385']
i put in an order late feb/early march i think. hes due to start the build in nov so still a wait but getting closer. Iv not limited myself for the spec so theres gonna be piezos, inlays and a lovely black walnut top (unique unusual figuring)etc . There are still some bits to finalize before the build starts though im still considering different neck sizing options but it will be a 33" scale 24 frets. Ill post a full review with pics and video when it arrives.
its gonna be EPIC!
[/quote]

Oh man! You lucky, lucky barstard

[matski]

To the OP: I wouldn't worry too much - the only people who are going to be aware that you have a 'fancy' bass are going to be in the minority (a percentage of other bass players).

The last time I used the fanciest of my basses - the Music Man Cutlass 1 - was in a Polish shopping centre on a cold and rainy Saturday afternoon. You can't get much more of a mundane (or non-fancy) setting that that!

[attachment=119197:700_0512.JPG]

[shizznit]

This a topic that is wide open for debate. I have owned what I consider to be outstanding basses...made to order and stupidly expensive compared to off the rack instruments. A Warwick Dolphin Pro 1 Custom, MTD 535/24 and an Overwater Progress III. I never felt inadequate whilst playing them...punching above my weight so to speak. They were merely tokens of hundreds of hours of hard work to be able to afford instruments of high quality. Did they make me a better player? Of course not. However, those instruments did help to fine tune my ear to what tones really switch me on and how much playing technique plays a part in that.

With the exception of the Overwater (which some toe-rag pinched off stage at a festival) I sold those basses in favour of going back to a more traditional tone. Hence why I now play a Fender Jazz and a Lakland 55-02 that can give me a pretty convincing P, J or MM tone when I am working as those basses seem to be the staple requisite for a lot of producers. I also have a Warwick which is a nice switch if I want something with a more exotic, modern edge.

I have ordered a Shuker Uberhorn 5 string and plan to keep the other basses as they will still have constant use when I am recording. Even though the Shuker may be a high end, made to order bass it was important for me to be very specific about what I wanted from the bass and on now it was going to serve me in the long run. It will be a mixture of tradional tone and modern playability. I love MM basses...definitely my all time favourite, but I have never been keen on the weight and the neck profile...that's just my personal taste after playing various different types of basses over the past 18rs and understanding what makes me tick when I play. So, the bass will have the tone of a MM, but light weight, comfortable and easier to play for long periods. I have to spend above over what I would expect to pay for an off the rack instrument to receive a very fine tuned representation of what I want and need to perform to the best of my ability.

Anyway, back to the OP. I know of one particular player that has a high end bass collection that exceeds £40k, not including the amps that he owns. Sadowsky, Ken Smith, Alembic, Warwick, Brubaker...you name it...it will be hiding in a cupboard in his house. As you expect, he is a high earner, but I would consider to be inbetween beginner and moderate as far as his playing skill and knowledge is concerned. He doesn't actively play in a band and treats it very much as a hobby.

Now, this is the conflict of emotions that a few of us have when we come across players like him. Does the skill of the player match the quality of the instruments or are we just envious?

[Dingus]

[quote name='shizznit' timestamp='1348506018' post='1814511']


Anyway, back to the OP. I know of one particular player that has a high end bass collection that exceeds £40k, not including the amps that he owns. Sadowsky, Ken Smith, Alembic, Warwick, Brubaker...you name it...it will be hiding in a cupboard in his house. As you expect, he is a high earner, but I would consider to be inbetween beginner and moderate as far as his playing skill and knowledge is concerned. He doesn't actively play in a band and treats it very much as a hobby.

Now, this is the conflict of emotions that a few of us have when we come across players like him. Does the skill of the player match the quality of the instruments or are we just envious?
[/quote]

This is scenario I have also encountered , where people who can hardly play at all , or else have very patchy ability on the instrument have garnered a collection of equipment that far outstrips their ability to use it effectively. It's easy ( and sometimes tempting) to be scathing of such folks, but I think it would be wrong to be so. Ultimately , folks can spend their own money on what they like, and if you were to start allocating instruments to people on the basis of ability then who's to say that you or I would be allocated our basses of choice by the better players who judged us?. I completley understand where you are coming from with this, but basses are no different to any other consumer items- if you got the money then someone will be glad to sell you them. I have sold quite a few high-end basses overe the years, and more often than not I have been genuinely shocked by the poor level of playing of the people who came along and bought them . Most of them would have been far better served by buying a Squier and spending the balance of the money on lessons. Seriously.

I can recall intense phone conversations with a prospective buyer agonizing over whether the bass I was selling had mukalungu wood stringers in the neck rather than the standard African mahogany used on later models, only to find that when he came to try the bass the chap in question could only atonally strum the open strings and attempt a few bizarre and probably non-existant chord shapes. I asked him what kind of music he played ,to which he mysteriously replied " religous music".

This is by no means an isolated incident ; most of the other punters who have bought basses from me were quite frankly useless, with only one or two notable exceptions, and I only buy ( and eventually sell) very nice basses. But what crime have these people ultimatey committed by aspiring to a good quality instrument? So much of the culture around playing the bass emphasizes the need for professional quality equipment at at the exclusion of everything else that I can easily see how anyone would gravitate towards getting their hands on this kind of gear as soon as they could, even if it was before their playing skills merited it. The difficult truth for all of us is that buying basses is fairly easy, all you need is money. It's learning to play them that 's the difficult part.. Here on Basschat members ( myself included) put far more energy and enthusiasm into discussing equipment than they do discussing learning scales, modes and arpegios . A lot of the very best players don't use very fancy equipment- players like Jeff Berlin or even Marcus Miller spring to mind- because it's just not that important to them for one reason or another. Their focus is far more on their musicality than their equipment.

[lowdowner]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1348094104' post='1809370']
thumbs not a fancy bass in my book. It's a design classic!
[/quote]
Obviously you are now my favorite BC poster of the week for this comment

[lowdowner]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1348513085' post='1814644']
Here on Basschat members ( myself included) put far more energy and enthusiasm into discussing equipment than they do discussing learning scales, modes and arpegios . A lot of the very best players don't use very fancy equipment- players like Jeff Berlin or even Marcus Miller spring to mind- because it's just not that important to them for one reason or another. Their focus is far more on their musicality than their equipment.
[/quote]
Oh god - having just recently escaped years and years of 'traditional' classical music theory, not to have to concentrate on modes, arpegios and the like is really refreshing. The last thing I want to do is return to discussing non-equal tempered scales on fretless necks. Light hearted chat about which wood looks the nicest is fine by me

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='lowdowner' timestamp='1348513399' post='1814651']
Obviously you are now my favorite BC poster of the week for this comment
[/quote]

have a look at the thread I just posted.... originally I was interested in the ACG harlot... and the multi wood single cut design.... well that bass is stunning stunning stunning looking- and although I am a fan of Alan's work to look at I think it's the best looking bass he's ever made - and I looked through his entire website to back that up! Then that bass came up on ebay... and well- another classic design and in a fight I know which one I would go for.... but as it happened a pottential sale of my JV didn't happen and... well maybe one of them will still be available in a few months?!

[shizznit]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1348513085' post='1814644']
This is by no means an isolated incident ; most of the other punters who have bought basses from me were quite frankly useless, with only one or two notable exceptions, and I only buy ( and eventually sell) very nice basses. But what crime have these people ultimatey committed by aspiring to a good quality instrument?
[/quote]

I have been lucky in that sense whereby most of my past bass kit has been moved onto players that are friends of mine and can string more than two notes together, but I did have a situation a few years ago when I sold a PRS CU24 ten top to a fella that came all the way from Norwich to Cardiff to pick up in person. I thought "Crikey!!! Serious player that is desperate for this one!". When I spoke to him the day before he seemed to have an encyclopaedic knowledge of PRS guitars and bragged about how successful his covers band were in Suffolk. He arrived and was eager to test the guitar. I set up the amp, made sure the lead worked and let him go to town. My girlfriend who was present in the room had to leave...in her words "I'm putting the kettle on if anyone wants one?". I soon followed her in the kitchen and we both laughed our arses off! There are no words in any known language (except perhaps Russian) that would describe how bad this guy played like! Think of a person trampolining and trying to play a guitar whilst wearing oven mitts trying to play Hotel California. To put it politely, he had more work to do!

Once I had all the laughs out of my system I walked back into the lounge, did the deal and walked him into the car park. To my surprise he clicked his door remote and the boot of his Bentley Continental popped open and he placed the guitar inside. Drove off and I couldn't help but think that he had the last laugh!

Edited September 24, 2012 by shizznit