eminence kappa pro 15 vs Eminence Kappalite 3015LF

[stevie]

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1348156845' post='1810181']
Get a spare piece of MDF and make a 100mm hole in it as normal. Then clamp this onto the baffle so the hole in the MDF is where you want the final hole to be. Recess the bit the bit so it's inside the holesaw, then drill, using the MDF to keep the holesaw in place.
[/quote]
That's a very neat solution. I wish I'd learned about it before - it could have saved me a lot of hassle:-).

[stevie]

[quote name='skidder652003' timestamp='1348159310' post='1810220']
something like this?
[url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SPEAKER-CABINET-BASS-REFLEX-TUBE-VENT-SILVER-100X200MM-/190647296824?_trksid=p3284.m263&_trkparms=algo%3DSI%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUCI%252BUA%252BFICS%26otn%3D21%26pmod%3D180963208964%26ps%3D54"]http://www.ebay.co.u...08964%26ps%3D54[/url]
[/quote]
Much too expensive - and the flange looks very thick. This is the industry-standard 4-inch port tube: http://www.wilmslow-audio.co.uk/100mm-flanged-port-413-p.asp. You should find it cheaper on eBay but I can't find any on there at the moment. Just make sure it's going to be long enough before you start cutting your cabinet.

[Phil Starr]

I think we are all pretty much in agreement. The Mag is the better cab to adapt as the size is a pretty good match but you ought to put in bigger ports. All the air shifted by those big speakers (and remember they move further than the old ones has to exit those tiny ports at resonance and the air will be doing a significant speed and will make chuffing noises.

Aren't the ports on the back of the Mag? If so how worried are you about how they look?

You could probably find a chippy to cut the holes for you for a few quid if you are nervous about it. Get hold of the porting first though, I use black soil pipe or drain pipe mostly.

Still need the internal dimensions ideally.

[skidder652003]

[url="http://www.wilmslow-audio.co.uk/100mm-flanged-port-413-p.asp"]http://www.wilmslow-audio.co.uk/100mm-flanged-port-413-p.asp[/url]
please tell me its these!

[stevie]

Oops, yes, you're right. Those are the ones. I've no idea what happened to my link.

[gjones]

Pssssst why not just fit the speaker in your Ashdown and if it sounds good and doesn't fart or make funny noises at volume..........just leave it there.

Don't tell those other guys that I suggested this...........I might get into trouble.

[stevie]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1348170480' post='1810454']
Aren't the ports on the back of the Mag? If so how worried are you about how they look?

You could probably find a chippy to cut the holes for you for a few quid if you are nervous about it. Get hold of the porting first though, I use black soil pipe or drain pipe mostly.
[/quote]

Yes, the ports are on the back, which means you are cutting through the vinyl and it really needs to be neat. A port with a lip on it gives you some margin for error, and the hole doesn't need to be perfect. Drain pipe is great on the front behind a grille.

[Balcro]

Strange that you should mention drain-pipe.......

Assuming that neither enclosure has any internal panel-to-panel or cross-bracing, here are my findings:-

With the Ashdown cab you'll need to do some work. As it is, with those ports you'll get a steady roll-off in the bass below 150Hz and a large amount of port noise. However, power handling at any point will exceed 325 Watts.
If you open out the the rear ports to about 10.0cm and add an additional third port the same size. Then you need to have a port length of (Edit - about 280mm). Plastic drainpipe cut to length should be OK.


With the Warwick, as I said before, the advantage is the greater number of ports. But, the enclosure is oversized and it shows in the potential power handling. Way down at 260 Watts, with the potential for the back & forth cone excursion (xmax) to exceed it's limit at about 38Hz! So full whack on the amp plus low "B" and using an octaver could be ..er undesirable.

If the enclosures do have extra internal bracing that you can't see at the moment, then there will need to be a quick recalculation. [u]This will also be needed once you accurately measure the internal dimensions and account for three longer ports.[/u]

My advice would be to go with the Ashdown, but you'll have to accept the lack of very deep bass extension.

Balcro.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Balcro

[Mr. Foxen]

Also line the cab with knobbly foam, makes a difference.

[skidder652003]

I know the Warwick has some internal bracing, the ashdown has none, will get internal measurements ASAP. I've already put acoustic baffling foam (?) inside the mag and that helped with the old speaker, the Warwick already had loads inside. Quite happy to cut holes in the mag, will get that drill bit, but 2 or 3 - 100mm holes?

[stevie]

Ashdown should be ashamed of themselves for fitting 3-inch ports in this cab. I know it's a budget cab, but there's really no excuse for this level of penny pinching. I'd really like to see some accurate measurements for this cab to confirm or refute whether they have mis-tuned it. Interesting.

I've made lots of 15-inch bass cabs and have found 2 x 4-inch ports perfectly adequate. The vent air velocity graph in my design software agrees. Use Roland's method of enlarging the existing holes and fit two ports with a lip. It will look perfectly pro and will perform much better at volume.

Edited September 21, 2012 by stevie

[bremen]

[quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1348156845' post='1810181']
Get a spare piece of MDF and make a 100mm hole in it as normal. Then clamp this onto the baffle so the hole in the MDF is where you want the final hole to be. Recess the bit the bit so it's inside the holesaw, then drill, using the MDF to keep the holesaw in place.
[/quote]

I was going to say that ;-)

[Balcro]

After having another look at the figures, I'd agree with other posters. In general with two 4" (200mm) ports it will be fine.

If however you're going to regularly give it lots of "welly" and put over 150 watts into it (good for 115 decibels- deafeningly loud), there is always the option to make the ports wider. With ports 12.5cm in diameter, you could still use two and never notice any port noise.
Come to think of it at that sound level you probably wont be able to hear the port noise!

Anyway, lets get those accurate measurements onto the forum and we can give you the best possible advice. Until then, don't cut or drill anything.

Balcro.

Edited September 21, 2012 by Balcro

[redstriper]

[quote name='gjones' timestamp='1348177257' post='1810608']
Pssssst why not just fit the speaker in your Ashdown and if it sounds good and doesn't fart or make funny noises at volume..........just leave it there.

Don't tell those other guys that I suggested this...........I might get into trouble.
[/quote]
Good advice, that's exactly what I did and it sounded fine, none of the problems the experts here have mentioned - no chuffing, farting or buzzing, just nice deep, smooth bass.
But it was still a heavy cab, so I changed to a smaller and extremely lightweight Flite cab with a small port and it sounds even better.

Like these:
[url="http://www.darekoles.com/gear.htm"]http://www.darekoles.com/gear.htm[/url]

[skidder652003]

got to wait until 20th October for the speaker! Didnt think there would be a supply problem from blue aran?

[RandomBass]

Ouch! I do hate it when suppliers don't make it clear items are out of stock when you order. Mind you, I believe you did change the order? Still a pain though.

[Phil Starr]

Should have said that is the only problem with Blue Aran. Good to deal with but a bit slow. You can track the progress of your order on the website though.

[skidder652003]

purely out of interest!!? if i enlarge the ports to 100mm now whilst waiting for the speaker, do you think it would improve the current ashdown driver?

[Balcro]

A speaker, a port and an enclosure are one system. If you randomly change one or another, then you will have an effect.

It could be a boomier effect and initially sound different, but whether that's an improvement is doubtful. The chances are, you'll dramatically reduce the power handling of the speaker drive unit in the very low bass, rendering it potentially more susceptible to damage. To maintain control you would need to lengthen the port as you widen it. But without knowing the physical paramenters of the existing loudspeaker and running the modelling software you won't get the balance right. Back to square one.

Balcro.

[4 Strings]

Would it be inappropriate (unless someone already has) to comment that all the hard work has already been done by the likes of Maurice and Alex Claber for these drivers so why not flog the Ashdown cab and buy/make a BF (as in Bill) or buy a Compact from BF (as in Alex).

More money, perhaps not as exciting as your journey of discovery but you'll get a cab that def works for your money as both these chaps know what they're doing with Kappas and didn't have the compromise of an existing cabinet.

[skidder652003]

good point, may go down that route after attempting this-swap-speaker-cab-thing!
It was just a cheapish attempt to upgrade speaker/cab without (a) building a new one, ( waiting months for a new one (although thats now happened with the kappalite
The Ashdown is pretty lousy as a piece of kit IMO so chopping it up doesn't bother me (they're not worth much anyway)

[4 Strings]

[quote name='skidder652003' timestamp='1348659364' post='1816509']
good point, may go down that route after attempting this-swap-speaker-cab-thing!
It was just a cheapish attempt to upgrade speaker/cab without (a) building a new one, ( waiting months for a new one (although thats now happened with the kappalite
The Ashdown is pretty lousy as a piece of kit IMO so chopping it up doesn't bother me (they're not worth much anyway)
[/quote]

I suppose if the Ashdown doesn't work that well (even if an improvement on the original) could always transfer the driver into a ready made Bill cabinet. (I wonder if Alex will sell you an empty cab?)

[redstriper]

[quote name='skidder652003' timestamp='1348659364' post='1816509']
The Ashdown is pretty lousy as a piece of kit IMO so chopping it up doesn't bother me (they're not worth much anyway)
[/quote]

The Ashdown MAG 115 deep cab is well built and very solid IME, the only reason I got rid of mine was the weight.
I found it better tone wise than quite a few much more expensive, so called boutique cabs and I couldn't get it to rattle or buzz even at high volumes.

But then, I don't go in for any upper mid or treble in my sound, so I can't comment on it's performance in that regard.


Edited to point out that I didn't do anything to the ports when I fitted the Eminence 3015LF and there were no unwanted noises even at high volume.

Edited September 26, 2012 by redstriper

[3below]

While waiting you could always construct a cab using the suggested Eminence designs. Get local timber supplier to cut plywood to size, get nail gun and expanding polyurethane glue. Enjoy. If is sounds good (and should do) finish with Tuffcab and way to go.

[skidder652003]

[quote name='3below' timestamp='1348669354' post='1816709']
While waiting you could always construct a cab using the suggested Eminence designs. Get local timber supplier to cut plywood to size, get nail gun and expanding polyurethane glue. Enjoy. If is sounds good (and should do) finish with Tuffcab and way to go.
[/quote]

You make that sound soooo easy!!!