BottomE Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 You are the bass player. Unless you sh*t yourself and then caught fire nobody will notice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 One thing tho............... just because you think the audience let you off it is good to retain your own opinion that you were awful...by your admission. If you kid yourself it doesn't matter...and there are degrees about how bad you should beat yourself up, but a bad gig should be filed as a bad gig and you can take positives but it also keeps you a bit more musically grounded to know it was poor. Just because people gloss over things, I think you are right not to. A band that doesn't care or even realise is a band I'd avoid like the plague and it is also a band that will not learn or progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 [quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1347793654' post='1804949'] You are the bass player. Unless you sh*t yourself and then caught fire nobody will notice. [/quote] Go on then, prove it! :-) :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 There are two things to take from experiences like this: 1. Did the crowd enjoy it? Even of you all thought it was awful, if the audience enjoyed it, don`t be too hard on yourselves. 2. Always rehearse how you would set up for a gig, all amps lined up by the drummer etc. Get used to not being able to hear everything, so you`ll be ready for it in the gigging world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul torch Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 [quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1347793654' post='1804949'] You are the bass player. Unless you sh*t yourself and then caught fire nobody will notice. [/quote]DOH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I was in a band years ago where it was such mayhem - all the songs were too fast and too loud - that i decided to do a little experiment. During some of the songs i started playing random bum notes out of time. I looked up hoping that someone would notice but no, not a tickle or a twitch. I quit that band the following day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1347794271' post='1804963'] One thing tho............... just because you think the audience let you off it is good to retain your own opinion that you were awful...by your admission. If you kid yourself it doesn't matter...and there are degrees about how bad you should beat yourself up, but a bad gig should be filed as a bad gig and you can take positives but it also keeps you a bit more musically grounded to know it was poor. Just because people gloss over things, I think you are right not to. [/quote] There's a difference between being crap because your band isn't very good and being crap because an unexpected set of circumstances at a gig conspired against you. To me it's obvious that the OP knows that his band's performance wasn't very good. It's what they do about it that counts. As much as we should all like to turn in a perfect performance every gig, for nearly all of us that isn't going to happen. The important things to do are to minimise the impact of any mistakes so that only the band and it's most obsessive fans notice them, and to take steps to reduce to possibility of the same mistakes happening at a future gig. [quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1347794612' post='1804973'] Always rehearse how you would set up for a gig, all amps lined up by the drummer etc. Get used to not being able to hear everything, so you`ll be ready for it in the gigging world. [/quote] And when you've set up like this don't still stand in a circle looking at each other. Face where your audience in going to be. A band that has to rely on visual cues is a band that isn't as well rehearsed as it should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1347795776' post='1804998'] There's a difference between being crap because your band isn't very good and being crap because an unexpected set of circumstances at a gig conspired against you. To me it's obvious that the OP knows that his band's performance wasn't very good. It's what they do about it that counts. As much as we should all like to turn in a perfect performance every gig, for nearly all of us that isn't going to happen. The important things to do are to minimise the impact of any mistakes so that only the band and it's most obsessive fans notice them, and to take steps to reduce to possibility of the same mistakes happening at a future gig. [/quote] The OP says he hasn't done many gigs and the band seems to be getting worse... that doesn't sound like a one off..so alarms bells for me. The OP can't do anything about the bad gig but one bad performance can take a lot of recovering from, and a run of them can pretty much damn the band for good..or a very long time. It takes a long time to build an audience and no time at all to trash it. I just say, don't make light of it..as too many people do, IMO. It may be too much trouble for £70pm at a pub gig, but if you can't be bothered to improve..and I am not saying the OP is saying that himself, then you shouldn't bother at all, IMO. It isn't good enough to have a show built on sand... you should have some competance as well and for that, you'll need to learn and continue learning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1347794271' post='1804963'] One thing tho............... just because you think the audience let you off it is good to retain your own opinion that you were awful...by your admission. If you kid yourself it doesn't matter...and there are degrees about how bad you should beat yourself up, but a bad gig should be filed as a bad gig and you can take positives but it also keeps you a bit more musically grounded to know it was poor. Just because people gloss over things, I think you are right not to. A band that doesn't care or even realise is a band I'd avoid like the plague and it is also a band that will not learn or progress. [/quote] This is absolutely on the money. A bad gig where the band sits down with a beer later and talks through what went wrong and how to improve next time is a learning experience. A bad gig where everyone shrugs and says "[i]They probably didn't notice anyway[/i]" will reinforce the problems and make them more likely to recur. You've made [i][b]your [/b][/i]views clear ... what do the rest of your band think? [i][color=#b22222][Incidentally, I depped for an established, gigging band last night. Their core has been playing together for 20+ years. They pooled their resources and experience to produce the biggest clusterf*ck I've ever been involved with. After the gig, instead of an immediate post mortem, they stood around drinking beers and admiring the dancers. Thank God I was only depping for them.][/color][/i] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdowner Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 I think that the band is not improving at the moment because it's not taking it as seriously as I'd like. I don't want to be a miserable sod, but I'd like to spend rehearsals actually thinking about what we're doing wrong and improving, and not just playing through the songs concentrating on whether the chords are in the right sequence. I'm going to suggest we start videoing the rehearsals and looking back at them critically - i think that will be a start. Everyone in the band was tired before this gig, there wasn't enough practice (I think) and it's not healthy... Dunno - maybe I'm taking too seriously but - personally - I think it's worth making the effort because the joy when it goes right is pretty much unmatchable... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1347796393' post='1805013'] The OP says he hasn't done many gigs and the band seems to be getting worse... that doesn't sound like a one off..so alarms bells for me. The OP can't do anything about the bad gig but one bad performance can take a lot of recovering from, and a run of them can pretty much damn the band for good..or a very long time. It takes a long time to build an audience and no time at all to trash it. I just say, don't make light of it..as too many people do, IMO. It may be too much trouble for £70pm at a pub gig, but if you can't be bothered to improve..and I am not saying the OP is saying that himself, then you shouldn't bother at all, IMO. It isn't good enough to have a show built on sand... you should have some competance as well and for that, you'll need to learn and continue learning. [/quote] We weren't in the band and we probably weren't even in the audience, so it's a bit difficult to know exactly how bad this gig was. IME musicians tend to be far too hard on themselves as regards their performances. In some ways that's a good thing as we shouldn't become complacent about any real problems or shortcomings, but in other ways it can become crippling as we strive for unattainable standards of perfection. The OP says that he hasn't done many gigs. Is that just him or the whole band? Without hearing the band at a gig I couldn't say for sure, but my gut feeling is that the problem is mostly gigging inexperience. No matter how much time you've spent working on the songs either on your own or as a band in the rehearsal room a gig can be an unfamiliar (and for the inexperienced player possibly hostile) situation. For the first couple of gigs you're running on adrenaline and nervous energy, everything shoots past and before you know it your are surrounded by your friends telling you how good you were. It's after that initial rush that you might start noticing things and think that the band is getting worse. It's good that you notice that things aren't right, but it's identifying why things aren't right and how you deal with them that makes the difference. It might be that the band does need to practice more. But it might also be that they simply need more gigging experience to know how to cope outside of the relatively perfect environment of the rehearsal room. Unfortunately there's only so much you can prepare in advance for this and no proper substitute for for real-world gigging experience. And the multi-band and festival gig add a whole extra set of problems. You'll likely have less than 30 minutes to set up, be faced with an unfamiliar amp if you are sharing back line, start with whatever monitor mix the previous band had ended up with. Any new channels you are using on the desk will either be inaudible or deafening. You have to be an exceptional musician and performer for that not to phase you without lots of experience. Also I've found that if you worry about making mistakes and things going wrong then you will make more mistakes. You have to relax into the performance, knowing that mistakes will happen. What the other band members do is beyond your control, but how you react to them is completely up to you. Generally unless the song grinds to a halt half way through most people in the audience won't have noticed anything was amiss. On the other hand hopefully the band will be a stage closer to learning how to cope when things don't go according to plan. BTW JTUK I sometimes get the impression from your posts that we live in alternate musical universes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdowner Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1347799518' post='1805075'] Also I've found that if you worry about making mistakes and things going wrong then you will make more mistakes. You have to relax into the performance, knowing that mistakes will happen. What the other band members do is beyond your control, but how you react to them is completely up to you. Generally unless the song grinds to a halt half way through most people in the audience won't have noticed anything was amiss. On the other hand hopefully the band will be a stage closer to learning how to cope when things don't go according to plan. [/quote] This was an interesting comment (Well, it was all interesting so thanks for making the effort to post it). I think we're not relaxed enough to play well and this is probably affecting us the most. Knowing a song inside out will help, and more gigging experience. I'm looking forward to the next one and we'll see how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 [quote name='lowdowner' timestamp='1347799128' post='1805073'] I think that the band is not improving at the moment because it's not taking it as seriously as I'd like. I don't want to be a miserable sod, but I'd like to spend rehearsals actually thinking about what we're doing wrong and improving, and not just playing through the songs concentrating on whether the chords are in the right sequence. I'm going to suggest we start videoing the rehearsals and looking back at them critically - i think that will be a start. Everyone in the band was tired before this gig, there wasn't enough practice (I think) and it's not healthy... Dunno - maybe I'm taking too seriously but - personally - I think it's worth making the effort because the joy when it goes right is pretty much unmatchable... [/quote] No argument from me on this stance..... Of course, you can say that the extra effort required to make the next level..whatever that is, might be too much for the gains or fee etc but for me, I want the most we can get. I think it is a waste not to push that bit extra..especially as it might only need time and a little thought or imagination working on things to step up. I would also say, don't flog a dead horse either, but if all the parts are there, then it is almost criminal to let that go and not be the best you can get out of the unit. I am the hyper-critical one and I get stick for it within the band, but it is because I care... (but I am not anal...)...if I didn't I would get an easier gig...but that wouldn't work for too long either. If the gains are attainable, then go for it ..and you'll reap the rewards if only in your own satisfaction..and when/if you outgrow your band then move on and leave them behind. I work on the basis that if the gig pleases me, then that is a good start ..and it is the reason that people who know me ask what I am doing musically... if I tell them not to bother about a gig I am doing, then that is because I don't think it is that great...they may enjoy it anyway but I am not really selling it and it isn't my 'gig'.. but they also know if I tell them to check something out, then it is worth checking out. i guess they trust my point of reference. It is what it is... not going to change anything. No bad thing for the OP to know what he wants out of his musical adventures. IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leschirons Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 (edited) [quote name='lowdowner' timestamp='1347724780' post='1804376'] Ouch... <wince just thinking about it> Just had an outdoors gig at a small local charity festival and our band pretty much ruined our set... we couldn't hear ourselves because of a problem with the monitors, but having said that the band before appeared to do a sterling job with the same set up so perhaps it's not an excuse. We all sang off key, our timing was atrocious and there was no 'locking together'. To be honest we could all have been singing different songs at the same time and it wouldn't have been worse. All that rehearsal and time spent stressing over the gig and I'm wondering what's the point? I've not done many gigs - perhaps under a dozen - as I'm new to it, but they seem to be getting worse, not better *sobs* [/quote] Assuming all your band mates agree with your opinion of the gig, it's been a worthwhile (yet uncomfortable) experience as you'll all agree that issues need to be dealt with be it within the band or preparing for unforseen problems. However, if they all say what a good'un it was last night........ you're in trouble. Edited September 16, 2012 by leschirons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rogerstodge Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 [quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1347795763' post='1804997'] I was in a band years ago where it was such mayhem - all the songs were too fast and too loud - that i decided to do a little experiment. During some of the songs i started playing random bum notes out of time. I looked up hoping that someone would notice but no, not a tickle or a twitch. I quit that band the following day. [/quote]i actually stopped playing for almost a whole song at a gig a few years back, also not a tickle or twitch. I also quit that band a week later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MusicJunkie Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 The best advice I can give is to invest in a decent pair of monitors for yourselves and also to leave the trickiest songs until the audience are hammered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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