4 Strings Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Nothing to do with what the americans call 'apartments' but why are flat strings so much more expensive? Is it because fewer people use them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurksalot Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I think making them might cost a tad more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftyhook Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 They last a lot loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooonger....... for one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Is it because they are better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 [quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1347754314' post='1804715'] why are flat strings so much more expensive? [/quote] Depends on your idea of "expensive". I have read on other forums where people have had the same set of flats on their basses (still sounding warm and mellow) for up to twenty years. Even if you only change your roundwounds every couple of months, flats work out a lot cheaper in the long run. However, I suppose the question still remains, i.e. are flats more costly to make than rounds ? My guess is that they are not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 [quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1347787672' post='1804847'] Depends on your idea of "expensive". I have read on other forums where people have had the same set of flats on their basses (still sounding warm and mellow) for up to twenty years. Even if you only change your roundwounds every couple of months, flats work out a lot cheaper in the long run. However, I suppose the question still remains, i.e. are flats more costly to make than rounds ? My guess is that they are not. [/quote] Even if they don't, as individual strings, cost more to make, if they sell less and more slowly then any economies of scale are reduced and the price point will go up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Because hardly anyone uses them. Lets face it the only bassists in the UK who use flats are either Basschat regulars or those who bought their bass in the 50s or 60s and are still using the strings that came with it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 (edited) [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1347790968' post='1804912'] Because hardly anyone uses them. Lets face it the only bassists in the UK who use flats are either Basschat regulars or those who bought their bass in the 50s or 60s and are still using the strings that came with it! [/quote] I disagree, they were moderately popular as fretless strings when I started playing in the early/mid 90s (pre-internet for most people), but I wouldn't have thought of putting them on a fretted bass at the time. I sought them out as I was playing fretless bass guitar as a skint teenagers double bass substitute and I thought they might get me a bit closer to that sound. In retrospect, I'm not sure they did, but a flatwound strung bass guitar is a fun sound in its own right. I'm sure they must be more expensive to make, as they have a whole extra polishing step in the process. The smaller demand can't help with the price, either. Still, they're cheap compared with even the cheapest double bass strings! Edited September 16, 2012 by Beer of the Bass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coilte Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1347790968' post='1804912'] Because hardly anyone uses them. [/quote] I disagree also. While there is no doubt that they are a minority taste, I think more and more people are discovering and liking them, especially on the other side of the pond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarnacleBob Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 (edited) Thinking of sticking a set of flats on my old 79 Overwater with twin HBs, any recommendations? It has a bit of a dead spot, would this help or hinder that issue or make no difference? BB ps no experience of flats whatsoever so far Edited September 16, 2012 by BarnacleBob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I've had at least one bass where the dead spot was much more audible with flats than with rounds, unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassTractor Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1347790968' post='1804912'] Because hardly anyone uses them.[/quote] Essentially yes. Customers tend to have no idea about how extremely expensive it is to produce, distribute, stock and market products that are of a less popular type. [quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1347795011' post='1804985'] I think more and more people are discovering and liking them, especially on the other side of the pond. [/quote] Yes, we do like them on this side of the pond. That said, I've always liked them, though it started out as a finger saving alternative to the then obligatory Rotosound rounds. I'm now(ish) putting flats on my fretted Bongo, as it is said to sound killer. best, bert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 Seems to me that more serious recording bass players use flats (that's not to say those using rounds are not serious, Jaco par example). I wanted to try them on my Stingray, what's good enough for 'Nard etc. Trouble is, if they don't do it for me there's £30 odd down the drain. (That little problem kind of solved as I have just been given an Amazon voucher for my birthday!) Flats get polished? Anyone know what 'Nard used? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingus Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1347790968' post='1804912'] Because hardly anyone uses them. Lets face it the only bassists in the UK who use flats are either Basschat regulars or those who bought their bass in the 50s or 60s and are still using the strings that came with it! [/quote] What you say here is largely true - roundwounds are still by far the most popular type of string- but since around the turn of the millienium , flatwounds have had a very significant resurgence in popularity. By the early 80s' nobody was using flats. They were as out of fashion as flared trousers or voting Labour. More recently however there has been a big upsurge in players trying to get that much more muted , thumpy sound again, a trend led largely by ultra high-cred session players like Pino Palladino, Justin Meldal Johnson , Chris Chaney and Sean Hurley. The prominance of self- consciously retrogressive styles in neo-soul and hiphop , along with the revival of so-called roots music , where producers and artists want to get a live sound that sounds like the the samples and the old records that have inspired them ,has led to the once seemingly- impossible rebirth of the flatwound bass sound. As a result ,far more "serious enthusiast" (i.e Basschat members) are considering using them than ever before. I'm sure that particulaly internet string retailers have noticed an marked upsurge in demand. Regarding the higher cost of flatwounds, for the most part it is because of the higher cost of producing them. Flatwound strings have got more metal in them than the equivalent gauge in roundwound strings, due to the fact that they have a greater mass because of the lack serrations from the outer wire wrap. Rounwound strings lose mass because of the gaps inbetween the wire wrapped round them, wheras flatwounds are a solid bar of metal, if you see what I mean. This is also why flatwounds feel tighter than the equivalent gauge in roundwound: tension is dictated not by the gauge of the string i.e overall circumferance, but rather by total mass, which is far greater in flatwound strings. More metal means more cost to the manufacturer which is reflected in the final retail price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 (edited) I would seriously doubt that the "extra" metal needed to make a set of flats would generate any noticeable difference in the eventual retail price. With a relatively boutique item such as flatwound strings for bass guitars, the cost of raw materials is utterly negligible. Edited September 16, 2012 by Happy Jack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul torch Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 [quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1347799686' post='1805081'] Seems to me that more serious recording bass players use flats (that's not to say those using rounds are not serious, Jaco par example). I wanted to try them on my Stingray, what's good enough for 'Nard etc. Trouble is, if they don't do it for me there's £30 odd down the drain. (That little problem kind of solved as I have just been given an Amazon voucher for my birthday!) Flats get polished? Anyone know what 'Nard used? [/quote] status do sets for around £15. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvia Bluejay Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 When you're starting out as a student (of any age) hardly anyone mentions or suggests using flats. I wish I had started with flats and not bothered with rounds at all. I find them a lot easier on my fingers, and they make less noise when I have to shift my tiny little hand for a leap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarnacleBob Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Having a google there and found a few brands flatwound at £15-£16 range. However I also noticed Tapewound strings and Black nylon ( oo-er missus ) strings for bass. I don't think I have been aware ot these before. What's the deal with them? BB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 [quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1347799752' post='1805084'] ... Flatwound strings have got more metal in them than the equivalent gauge in roundwound strings, due to the fact that they have a greater mass because of the lack serrations from the outer wire wrap. Rounwound strings lose mass because of the gaps inbetween the wire wrapped round them, wheras flatwounds are a solid bar of metal, if you see what I mean... [/quote] This is not at all obviously true. In fact, given that roundwound strings have a spherical wrap while flatwound have a tape wrap (not exactly a 'solid bar') it seems quite possible that there's less metal in a flatwound. I expect it also varies greatly between different manufacturers. [quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1347799752' post='1805084'] ...This is also why flatwounds feel tighter than the equivalent gauge in roundwound: tension is dictated not by the gauge of the string i.e overall circumferance, but rather by total mass, which is far greater in flatwound strings.... [/quote] But not all flatwounds do 'feel tighter' (i.e. compliance) nor do they all have higher tension (e.g. TI Jazz Flats). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 [quote name='BarnacleBob' timestamp='1347800479' post='1805102'] Having a google there and found a few brands flatwound at £15-£16 range. However I also noticed Tapewound strings and Black nylon ( oo-er missus ) strings for bass. I don't think I have been aware ot these before. What's the deal with them? BB [/quote] Tapewound is often just another word for flatwound - the final winding is tape rather than wire. Black nylon tapewounds have a black nylon tape as the final winding. Examples are La Bella 760N, Rotosound Trubass, and Pyramid Black Nylons - Fender, GHS and D'Addario also do sets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted September 16, 2012 Author Share Posted September 16, 2012 The tape wounds are to try to emulate an upright sound. Macca used Trubass and got that sort of glowing sound on his Rick. I have Trubass on my Motown Precision, they sound more defined than the nameless flats it came with which were more boomy. They also look pretty cool on a b/b/m Precision! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarnacleBob Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Right, I get it now! Cheers guys. Think I saw a f/less P recently with the black strings somewhere. It's an education on here! BB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Just don't use them under any circumstances. They are unspeakably appalling things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 [quote name='Spoombung' timestamp='1347802441' post='1805143'] Just don't use them under any circumstances. They are unspeakably appalling things. [/quote] Hey, don't say that! I've got a set in the post. No doubt I'll find out for myself whether I agree... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 [quote name='Spoombung' timestamp='1347802441' post='1805143'] Just don't use them under any circumstances. They are unspeakably appalling things. [/quote] [quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1347803643' post='1805158'] Hey, don't say that! I've got a set in the post. No doubt I'll find out for myself whether I agree... [/quote] I just use them under any circumstances. They are unspeakably wonderful things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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