Brass instruments

[GarethFlatlands]

A friend is getting married next year and she's a big ska fan. I thought it might be cool to learn a couple of songs on sax or trumpet but I've got zero experience with either. Does anyone know how hard they are to pick up and whether a year is realistic to learn a few tunes?

[oggiesnr]

Sax I can't manage, trumpet and tuba I can get sounds out of. Yes you can do it in a year so long as tou're prepared to work at it a bit.

Steve

[bassintheface]

I am a brass player and have been for 19 years.
The comment above is more than a bit vague and not so well informed in my opinion.

Getting a sound out of something is one thing, playing something well is another - I can get a noise out of a set of bagpipes - I'd never try and play them at a wedding though - they'd think it was part of a bad comedy routine!!

With no prior brass playing experience, with regular lessons (at least an hour per week, plus home practice of a few hours per week), depending on the difficulty of what you're wanting to play, you could
'get by' with a few pieces.
I've noticed that you're in Sheffield so you shouldn't have any trouble in finding a decent brass teacher there - Yorkshire is deep brass band country after all.
Try www.themouthpiece.com - a well used UK based brass band forum.........

Buy an 'Arban' brass palyers method book........


Are you talking solo or with a band.
One of the main issues will be if you're planning on playing along with a band is that your embouchure won't be very well developed after a year - you may well have real tuning and intonation problems (along with tone too probably) throughout your range, which, when heard in isolation may not be so bad, but heard in the context on an 'in tune' ensemble, may sound pretty rough.

Saxophone isn't brass, it's woodwind and completely different to play than a brass instrument.
Woodwind mouthpieces have a reed that goes in your mouth. Brass mouthpieces are just a round sort of funnel that you put our mouth in and 'buzz' with your lips, or blow a raspberry - a lot more to it than that, but it's the basic principle.

let me know if you need anymore advice.

Cheers.

[GarethFlatlands]

Nope, looks good thanks. I forgot about the sax being woodwind, I tend to lump the horn section instruments together forgetting about the fairly massive difference.

I got a reasonably priced Bach Bb trumpet off E-Bay so I'll see how I get on with that and hit you up for any advice if I need to. There's always my Korg synth if it turns out I can't get a tune out of the thing!

Thanks again.

[oggiesnr]

Good luck and have fun.

Steve

[iiipopes]

I also play brass. I started on trumpet in primary school and have played everything that goes along with a mixed brass/woodwind concert band in school and some other types of concerts over the years. I settled on tuba in college when it was obvious I wasn't going to be as good on trumpet as I would need to be to make that a primary instrument.

Yes, I "triple." I perform gigs on electric bass, double bass and tuba. I can tell you that the muscle tone required for the embouchure without "pulling" and the volume and velocity of breath support required for trumpet is demanding, to say the least. If you persist with brass, I would suggest holding down the fort in a brass section with trombone, euphonium, or Eb tuba instead.

The upside is that by getting to be known as a doubler on both bass guitar and tuba, your opportunities for gigs will open up as well.

[scalpy]

When you do start, don't rush it.

6 months doing long notes and lip slurs/ flexibility will accelerate your progress much quicker than leaping into playing pieces, even if they aren't massively exciting.

Just depends on how seriously you take it really.

[GarethFlatlands]

I was thinking a few 5 minute spells a day with just the mouthpiece to really concentrate on building up stamina and getting a decent tone, not even worrying about installing it for a couple of months minimum. That should be a good start and hopefully keep the volume down so I can get more practice in without annoying the housemates.

[GarethFlatlands]

Well it arrived today, looks pretty good apart from the fact I don't think it's seen any grease or oil in a few years as the valves stick. I know I said I was going to go for the mouthpiece alone for a bit but you've got to pretend you're an expert the first few times you take it out the case haven't you? Anyway, just practising getting a tone out of the thing at the moment. The guy on the youtube beginners vid gets a nice tone just from his lips but I can't do it without the mouthpiece.

Practice time!

[scalpy]

The lip buzzing thing is very important, and at uni we all spent a lot time stood in front of the mirror looking very stupid perfecting it. However, just recently, I saw a video by Allen Vizutti, advocating [i]not [/i]buzzing. His rationale, especially for a beginner, is that it's actually the air stream that is most important. Therefore, learning to breathe and blow correctly, coupled with the mouthpiece on the lips in a relaxed fashion allows the lips to vibrate naturally without tension being created by the pinching of the corners of your mouth, like when you buzz without the mouthpiece. As I posted earlier, long notes are great at helping develop this, especially if you can do them at low volume, whilst still putting lots of air into the instrument. What is paramount is that you don't screw the mouthpiece on to your face, and you use as little pressure as possible when going further up the register. My old practise technique was to buzz on the mouthpiece along to the radio or whatever, but only holding the very end of the shank with the lightest possible grip possible. (So many jokes, so little time!) If you try this and you find your fingers coming back to your face, your using too much pressure!

[GarethFlatlands]

That was far too useful for any 'fnar fnar' comments so thanks! Ordered some oil and grease (here we go again...) so I can at least maintain the instrument while I'm doing mainly mouthpiece practice.

[tazza1]

[quote name='scalpy' timestamp='1348727743' post='1817313']
The lip buzzing thing is very important, and at uni we all spent a lot time stood in front of the mirror looking very stupid perfecting it. However, just recently, I saw a video by Allen Vizutti, advocating [i]not [/i]buzzing. His rationale, especially for a beginner, is that it's actually the air stream that is most important. Therefore, learning to breathe and blow correctly, coupled with the mouthpiece on the lips in a relaxed fashion allows the lips to vibrate naturally without tension being created by the pinching of the corners of your mouth, like when you buzz without the mouthpiece. As I posted earlier, long notes are great at helping develop this, especially if you can do them at low volume, whilst still putting lots of air into the instrument. What is paramount is that you don't screw the mouthpiece on to your face, and you use as little pressure as possible when going further up the register. My old practise technique was to buzz on the mouthpiece along to the radio or whatever, but only holding the very end of the shank with the lightest possible grip possible. (So many jokes, so little time!) If you try this and you find your fingers coming back to your face, your using too much pressure!
[/quote]

One thing to try & avoid is puffing your cheeks out, which is where the muscle tone referred to above comes in (yes I know you see some trumpet players who look like bullfrogs when they're playing but they are pretty unique talents). The work needs to be done by the lungs coupled with a good embrochure - this will give a good technique. To be honest I wouldn't just "blow" with the mouthpiece alone as the pressure is not like the full instrument & you won't really be able to tell whether you are getting near to playing something musical.

[GarethFlatlands]

Yeah, I can't even get a sound out of the thing at the minute despite having some beginners luck making a pleasing 'parp' first time I took it out of the case. Not a bean since :-(

A friend in a local band plays trumpet so I'm going to hit him up for a few short lessons to get me making noise and then take it from there.

[GarethFlatlands]

Well I took a lesson last week and I'm getting more consistent in actually making it sound musical. The main issue practising quietly in the flat as the mute adds too much resistance and I struggle with hitting the G with it in. Practising quietly is good practice though so it's getting about 20 minutes or so a day with the mute in and out. I'm enjoying the challenge at the moment and look forward to it!