xilddx Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 (edited) I'm generally an 'imagine first, learn later' type. I want my music to represent ME, not my limited skills on instruments. If I imagine a bass line I can't play, I know it's good enough if it makes me want to put the effort in to learn how to play it. Ears are more important than hands, or gear. I hear dynamics, and I want to get as close as possible to them when I actually play. It often surprises me how few nuances bassists use to get dynamics and let the song breathe, how little space is used. So I'm wondering if your fingers lead you, or if your musical mind does. And what you do to play THROUGH your bass rather than ON it. Edited September 19, 2012 by silddx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mornats Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I tend to have an idea in my head of roughly what I want a bassline to sound like first. It can be based on the rhythm of something or some small lick or the overall business of a piece - just anything really. I then play 2 or 4 bars looped until I get it right. It's funny but I can get it right on the first take or the 180th, it just depends. I develop it as I go, picking out parts where the dynamics can change or the timing, or the pauses (I'm learning to take bits out as well as put bits in). The track I'm currently working on is 5m 30s or so and the whole bassline loops once, so a 2 min baseline thereabouts. Looking back at the project file, I recorded this in 2 or 4 bar loops over 450 takes (or around that, some may have been deleted). Then there are few tracks of mine where I was focusing more on the guitar parts and I nailed the bassline first go. So I guess my musical mind takes me places and drags my fingers along for the ride and teaches them a thing or two. I like it, it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 not everyone listens to enough music to be a good musician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1348095507' post='1809401'] not everyone listens to enough music to be a good musician. [/quote] That is such a key point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I can play [i]precisely[/i] what I imagine, but my problem is that I have a severely limited imagination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Musky' timestamp='1348095646' post='1809404'] I can play [i]precisely[/i] what I imagine, but my problem is that I have a severely limited imagination. [/quote] Do you think it's possible to expand your musical imagination in a way that would satisfy you? Do you think you are motivated to? Are you happy the way you play? Edited September 19, 2012 by silddx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttitudeCastle Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I always "sing" parts to my band mates, but always struggles translating it. I don't often succeed and have never been sure how to work on that, So for me musical mind first every single time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttitudeCastle Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 [quote name='Mornats' timestamp='1348095213' post='1809392'] So I guess my musical mind takes me places and drags my fingers along for the ride and teaches them a thing or two. I like it, it works. [/quote] This! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1348095607' post='1809403'] That is such a key point. [/quote] I think if you do listen to a lot of stuff it's easy to forget, my flatmate has a degree in music and can just create melodies in his head that flow and work- he can then play them in pretty much anything he touches. I hear them and maybe get them out if I'm lucky- or I have a sense where I can improvise based more on where I wnat to go rather than what the chord shape is. But we've all met people who just can't hear it. They know the songs but going off chart, or making new stuff isn't going to happen - I link that down to listening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 If I could play even half of the lines or melodies that randomly appear in my head I'd probably decide I no longer need to practice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1348095800' post='1809406'] Do you think it's possible to expand your musical imagination in a way that would satisfy you? Do you think you are motivated to? Are you happy the way you play? [/quote] Actually, the real problem for my musical creativity is that I've spent the last 8 years playing 60's style garage. It's not exactly demanding and can be rather formulaic, but I rather enjoy it. So perhaps I am lacking in the motivation department. I'm happy enough pounding out root notes with the odd chromatic run thrown in to remind the guitarist I'm there, but sometimes I can't help but wonder if there's more to life than raw, primitive, basic rock'n'roll? Naaaah.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 (edited) I can usually play it, unless its very complex, or some super slap that I cant do. But that's stuff I[i] imagine [/i]in my head. Stuff already written seems more difficult. . I have been trying for a week to get the bassline to [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ok2-ic5iPA"]Nervous system by Killing Joke[/url]. Its not exactly difficult in that its not at all complex. I have found 3 different ways of playing it, but none of them are[i] quite [/i]right. It will drive me mad until I either get it right or I find something that I want to play more. (I have even tried every setting on my Zoom B2.1u to see if that helps ) Edited September 20, 2012 by daz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I always think of the bassline first, then generally struggle to play it second... then cheat and programme a synth instead! I definitely need to improve my chops, as it'd be great to just noodle whatever comes to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 One of the reasons I've spent a lot of time working on my technique and studying music is because I want to be able to play ideas that I hear. The 'imagine first,learn later' approach is great if you have time to do that,like if you are writing or practising.But,there are times,like when I'm playing a gig,when I might get a certain idea that I want to play at that moment-especially when I'm soloing. There is no point having great ideas if you don't have the facility, both musically and technically, to pull it off. I think it's totally possible to expand your musical imagination too. The more you listen too,the more variation you will get. If you listen to only Metal,you will have more limited ideas than if you listen to,say,Metal and Hip Hop. You could learn something like a Miles Davis line,stick some distortion on it and make it a cool Rock riff.It's something that you probably wouldn't have thought of if you were limited in what you listen to,but by listening to something new you get new ideas and expand you musical imagination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I let my head judge the correct notes, dynamics and rhythmic inflections of what I play on bass. Dynamics are so important, and not just the loud/soft (or piano/forte if you're a toff) aspect, I mean literally the whole aspect of the way you play, it's got to work for the music you're working for otherwise it really shows. My head also tells me to play less nowadays with the music that I write, record and perform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kendall Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Interesting topic - I tend to just sit down with my bass and noodle, quite often i hit on something that sounds good and keep playing with it until I'm happy with it. I use a Backtrack and then go back to it the following day - it's either naff cos I'd had a beer or two, or I build on it. My approach tends to be how I'm feeling at the time, what's going on in my life influences what comes out of my bass. I wrote one of my best lines sat in a hotel room after a sh*tty day in the office and only a large glass of merlot for company. The next day, I was excited and couldn't wait to get home and rework it with some effects. I've also noticed that in my noodleing moments, it's also influenced by what I've been listening to on my commute - be it Bryan Ferry, Sisters of Mercy or Cannibal Corpse. Their influence often comes out through my fingers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I don't need an imagination ... my band plays covers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I just bang the strings & hope some good notes come out when I hold a Bb m11. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Interesting question! I am actually more of a "rhythm" bass player. I don't often think in terms of melody or harmony, unless there is a string melody already there and I want to counter it... I stick with the what the drummer is playing to a far greater degree, which kind of limits me but also frees me. It's amazing what you can accomplish in terms of syncopation by NOT playing on certain beats or notes. That is what makes the track live and breathe IMO. It also gives the more melodic instruments more options... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I can make up and hum a bassline to myself but I can't just play it straight away, I have to work it out on the fretboard first and then learn it. I could never do that 'two soloists' thing where a guitarist plays a line and then the other copies it (unless it was completely rehearsed) because I'm just not quick enough to play what I can hear - there's always a learn/rehearse stage for me. That doesn't mean that I can't jam, but I am then limited to a few chops and I generally get frustrated that I don't have more. More work needed I guess! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1348125760' post='1809520'] I can make up and hum a bassline to myself but I can't just play it straight away, I have to work it out on the fretboard first and then learn it. I could never do that 'two soloists' thing where a guitarist plays a line and then the other copies it (unless it was completely rehearsed) because I'm just not quick enough to play what I can hear - there's always a learn/rehearse stage for me. That doesn't mean that I can't jam, but I am then limited to a few chops and I generally get frustrated that I don't have more. More work needed I guess! [/quote] I think that's why interval recognition and having an aural feel for the tonality of the modes is important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I imagine a lot of melodies. Sometimes it's very easy to translate them from my head to an instrument. Sometimes it's almost impossible. My back-up plan is whistling into a little recorder. The most frustrating thing is when you're trying to get one of these melodies out, but your limitations on the chosen instrument distract you from the melody in mind, and you end up forgetting what you were aiming for. Thankfully the older I get (but I don't practise much, or listen to music) the easier it is to get these melodies out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 [quote name='Conan' timestamp='1348125629' post='1809519'] Interesting question! I am actually more of a "rhythm" bass player. I don't often think in terms of melody or harmony, unless there is a string melody already there and I want to counter it... I stick with the what the drummer is playing to a far greater degree, which kind of limits me but also frees me. It's amazing what you can accomplish in terms of syncopation by NOT playing on certain beats or notes. That is what makes the track live and breathe IMO. It also gives the more melodic instruments more options... [/quote] this but the tricky part is trying to be diplomatic and persuading the guitarer that they too can underplay and see how much more the song benefits overall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highfox Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Interesting thread/question. I definately hear what I'd like to be able to play, but it takes a lot of time and work to get it out and sounding right and the Band normally want to move on a bit quicker. I'll do what I can to get close, but often have to compromise, due to my lack of skill or in thinking that simple is really best sometimes (did you see the excuses?) I'd love it if all my bass lines were 100% how I wanted them to be/sound.. but guess that's the Holy Grail of bass playing, at least it seems to be to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krysh Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 (edited) this is a very interesting question. my musical education was mostly teaching myself by playing to records and tapes. I always improvised and jammed with other musicians, tried to make originals and am and have never been so much interested in reproducing stuff other people had written. therefore my theoretical knowledge is a bit limited, but my ears are trained well. I still listen a lot to music of different styles and also still love to improvise with other good musicians most. Usually I try not to think too much whenever I try to write something new or improvise, so I'd say I let the music play me. I try to be in the music while I play and try to do it the way jaco did: watch and listen to yourself in context to the others and the music. and I'm still happy trying it. Edited September 20, 2012 by krysh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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