Fat Rich Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 [quote name='AntLockyer' timestamp='1348231516' post='1811170'] That's why Jazz swings, the 2 and 4 pulse. [/quote] Yup, but can also sound a bit cheesy if over emphasised. I think the video was deliberately trying to iron out the subconscious accenting of 2 and 4 so the player has complete control over where to put the accents. His playing immediately sounded more fluid as a result. It probably applies more to pianist and soloists, it's maybe our job as rhythm section to make it swing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 [quote name='Fat Rich' timestamp='1348233474' post='1811202'] Yup, but can also sound a bit cheesy if over emphasised. I think the video was deliberately trying to iron out the subconscious accenting of 2 and 4 so the player has complete control over where to put the accents. His playing immediately sounded more fluid as a result. It probably applies more to pianist and soloists, it's maybe our job as rhythm section to make it swing. [/quote] Absolutely. As soon as he started playing more straight time it sounded so much better and so less cheesy, and actually more emotive. I really like the sound of soloists playing more straight time over a swinging backing, I notice some reggae bass lines do this, except of course the bass is playing straighter and the drums and syncopation are swinging more. It sounds ace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urb Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Not really... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 [quote name='urb' timestamp='1348235150' post='1811222'] Not really... [/quote] Well if you cant we're all a bit stuffed then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I can play what I imagine on days when I don't feel I'm being imaginative enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urb Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1348238259' post='1811276'] Well if you cant we're all a bit stuffed then! [/quote] I try - I fail regularly - so I try again... obviously all depends on what I'm trying to play - but the more I play the more I realise what an insanely small amount I actually know about music... most of the time I rely on sheer gut instinct, my ears and my limited technique and knowledge - the rest is just 'having a go'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 I can honestly say I have no idea what the big guy was talking about when he said this hearing it LOUD was better than hearing it soft ? ? Just seemed like chin stroking seminar nonsense to me. Where everybody nods their heads and pretends to understand while they have no idea whats going on. In these situations I always put my hand up and say "sorry but I don't understand" and find out most other people didn't either. So here goes [center][size=5]Sorry but I don't understand[/size][/center] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 [quote name='daz' timestamp='1348242558' post='1811353'] I can honestly say I have no idea what the big guy was talking about when he said this hearing it LOUD was better than hearing it soft ? ? Just seemed like chin stroking seminar nonsense to me. Where everybody nods their heads and pretends to understand while they have no idea whats going on. In these situations I always put my hand up and say "sorry but I don't understand" and find out most other people didn't either. So here goes [center][size=5]Sorry but I don't understand[/size][/center] [/quote] He's saying that you will play it how you hear it. If you hear it loud in your head then that is how it will be translated your instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Well I would say I interpreted waht he said as to fill your head to bursting with the thing you are about to play, so its all you have in there, rather than just starting to play it without having 'visualised' it with no internal distractions at all first. I find this kind of approach really helpful, and I've done pretty much this sort of exercise when getting to know tricky bits in the past a lot. It has helped me to sing (however badly ) a line, or imagine playing it, or just to listen to the sound I want to hear myself make but in my head. I've never heard of anyone doing any real research into how this sort of thing can change musical playing, and I certainly have never claimed it was something really clever I was doing, it just made sense to me to take my hands out of the equation sometimes, and make sure I know what it is I'm attempting before I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) [quote name='daz' timestamp='1348242558' post='1811353'] I can honestly say I have no idea what the big guy was talking about when he said this hearing it LOUD was better than hearing it soft ? ? Just seemed like chin stroking seminar nonsense to me. Where everybody nods their heads and pretends to understand while they have no idea whats going on. In these situations I always put my hand up and say "sorry but I don't understand" and find out most other people didn't either. So here goes [center][size=5]Sorry but I don't understand[/size][/center] [/quote] I interpreted it thus - When you hear a tune in your head that you want to play, you tend to "hear" it at a moderate volume. Of course, you're not actually hearing anything, you're imagining it. In my head I hear the notes like I hear my innner monologue, being sung fairly softly as if a scat singer was living in my brain. If you imagine that those notes are being sung LOUD, it sends a stronger signal to your hands, the notes will be more distinct and present in your conciousness and you will find it easier to get the ideas from your brain out via your instrument. I think the crux of it, like 51mon said, is to clear your mind of everything but the melody. Thinking of the melody louder is probably just a way of achieving that. I can relate to what he means (if he means what I think he means) because a lot of the time my melodic ideas are a bit muddled and unclear in my head. Since watching this I've been focusing on thinking louder and clearer, and I think it could be one of the most important things I've learned in ages! Edited September 21, 2012 by Wil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Rich Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 [quote name='daz' timestamp='1348242558' post='1811353'] I can honestly say I have no idea what the big guy was talking about when he said this hearing it LOUD was better than hearing it soft ? ? Just seemed like chin stroking seminar nonsense to me. Where everybody nods their heads and pretends to understand while they have no idea whats going on. In these situations I always put my hand up and say "sorry but I don't understand" and find out most other people didn't either. So here goes [center][size=5]Sorry but I don't understand[/size][/center] [/quote] It might not work for everybody, best way to find out is to try it. Record yourself playing some phrase normally, then yell the phrase to yourself, give it some beans and play it again. It'll probably sound different, maybe more dynamics will come through. Easy to find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Fat Rich' timestamp='1348244439' post='1811384'] It might not work for everybody, best way to find out is to try it. Record yourself playing some phrase normally, then yell the phrase to yourself, give it some beans and play it again. It'll probably sound different, maybe more dynamics will come through. Easy to find out. [/quote] I agree. I had a nice quite [Imagined] tune in my head that translated nicely to the fingers, I then shouted the tune loudly and found i was slapping and popping it very loudly. Perhaps i took [the very good] video the wrong way. Garry Edited September 21, 2012 by lowdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 [quote name='Wil' timestamp='1348243895' post='1811376'] I interpreted it thus - When you hear a tune in your head that you want to play, you tend to "hear" it at a moderate volume. Of course, you're not actually hearing anything, you're imagining it. In my head I hear the notes like I hear my innner monologue, being sung fairly softly as if a scat singer was living in my brain. If you imagine that those notes are being sung LOUD, it sends a stronger signal to your hands, the notes will be more distinct and present in your conciousness and you will find it easier to get the ideas from your brain out via your instrument. I think the crux of it, like 51mon said, is to clear your mind of everything but the melody. Thinking of the melody louder is probably just a way of achieving that. [b]I can relate to what he means (if he means what I think he means) because a lot of the time my melodic ideas are a bit muddled and unclear in my head. Since watching this I've been focusing on thinking louder and clearer, and I think it could be one of the most important things I've learned in ages![/b] [/quote] I'm of the same thinking. It's a minor epiphany for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 [quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1348243646' post='1811369'] He's saying that you will play it how you hear it. If you hear it loud in your head then that is how it will be translated your instrument. [/quote] But also that if you can play it loud and with conviction, it also means you can play it quietly and with more expression. It won't be 'pale' anymore. And I completely agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdowner Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 This is the source of all the frustration - and motivation - of my music making... I can *hear* what I want... well, not so much 'hear' as feel I guess, but I then have to translate that to the real world and it's a real challenge. when you are as new to an instrument as me... this is a killer. I have to have faith that it will happen with plenty of practice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaydentaku Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 This is how a create music, it works very well for me. If you have trouble with it, try singing it, recording it and then matching the notes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 (edited) [quote name='lowdowner' timestamp='1348256108' post='1811606'] This is the source of all the frustration - and motivation - of my music making... I can *hear* what I want... well, not so much 'hear' as feel I guess, but I then have to translate that to the real world and it's a real challenge. when you are as new to an instrument as me... this is a killer. I have to have faith that it will happen with plenty of practice [/quote] It will happen, trust me. You'll have troughs, peaks and plateaux, but you'll get through them and progress. Record yourself, you'll hear great progress in a month if you put the work in. I've been playing for over thirty years, self taught, no real theory, can't read, not a technical player at all and I rarely practice, I only play. But one thing I think I can do is express myself quite well on the bass - through my note choices, use of space and dynamics, nuanced playing, and wanting to support the vocal and lyrics, rather than play with the drummer. I think I've developed an approach to my own self-expression, rather than being a technical player who can play anything. But I never wanted to do that, I want to play with bands I love playing with and luckily I can do that without needing to make a living at it. Find your own voice. Edited September 21, 2012 by silddx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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