Blimey it's big!

[FLoydElgar]

Hi... Let me clear something up here... I said "...[font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif"][color="#282828"]Depending how serious you are with the instrument... Get yourself a good tutor preferably someone who's a pro!".... Not that people who play the bow are the only serious double bass players.... Seriously I respect everyone regardless of what music they play.... End of the day we all love the bass instrument... Please remove your posts... Because we were here to help someone with questions not taking any opportunity to snipe...
Much respect to all here. Floyd.[/color][/font]

[Silvia Bluejay]

I don't see any reason why bowing and plucking should be perceived as mutually exclusive - they obviously aren't, in fact they're complementary. I think most of our debate here focusses on whether it's more helpful to learn to play DB with a bow or pizzicato. Personally, i've started with the latter (on an EUB) but I'm gassing for a bow and love learning new things - and eventually I'll find a way to get a real double bass

Edited September 22, 2012 by bluejay

[PaulKing]

[quote name='FLoydElgar' timestamp='1348258408' post='1811639']
Do bowing... very important... Depending how serious you are with the instrument... Get yourself a good tutor preferably someone who's a pro!
Buy Niel Tarlton's Bowing method books and off you go.... with a decent tutor... you'll be fine!
[/quote]

Well it depends which bit you quote! I was going on 'do bowing... Very important ... Depending how serious ...'. But fair enough if I read more into that than you meant.

Anyway, no need to remove posts, all meant in the most constructive way, no harm done, I was just fighting my corner .
Over reaction alert!

[daz]

I went to see The Stray Cats, many moons ago, and double bass player Lee Rocker did the whole [i]standing on the bass whilst playing it [/i]thing, etc etc.

[oggiesnr]

I originally thought that I'd learn a bit of bowing to help with intonation etc but since then it's taken on a life of it's own so I'm doing mainly arco in my lessons but at the same time the technique that I'm learning is passing on to the rest of my playing. It's horses for courses but don't dismiss it.

BTW my morris team loves it when I bow, gives a totally different feel and sound to the music.

Steve

[PaulKing]

[quote name='daz' timestamp='1348346246' post='1812703']
I went to see The Stray Cats, many moons ago, and double bass player Lee Rocker did the whole [i]standing on the bass whilst playing it [/i]thing, etc etc.
[/quote]
Great point.
No hang on, I've lost it again. Was there one?

Etc etc

[Fat Rich]

[quote name='zero9' timestamp='1348322014' post='1812313']
Blimey, this is bigger

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOhwt7uMutY&feature=fvwrel[/media]
[/quote]

Blimey, that is bigger

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1348312168' post='1812170']
Have you got a bow? I've got a spare cheap French bow you can have if you want one, I'd be happy to send it to you in return for a donation to BC.
[/quote]

That's a very kind offer, I'll see how I get on with the lesson tomorrow and if I can sneak through without bowing. If not, by return I'll send you a set of electric bass strings of your choice plus a donation to BC

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='Fat Rich' timestamp='1348392356' post='1812952']
... and if I can sneak through without bowing.
[/quote]

Bear in mind that the full description is "bowing and scraping".

[Fat Rich]

Just had my first lesson, now my brain hurts! It's been a long time since I've been taught anything, and even longer since I've learned anything. I knew my reading skills were very rusty but it seems I can't read and play upright at the same time need to do some serious practising there.

As has been said on this thread, there's no substitute for having someone show you the right way to play, and then looking over your shoulder to stop you slipping into sloppy technique again. The G always felt a bit out of reach and I was aware my left hand position wasn't great, having repositioned the bass, my arm and my thumb, already it's feeling better.

Very impressed with my teacher, she got me started on Simandl, is happy to teach without the bow and she's a lefty who plays righty like me. She gave the bass a thumbs up too, which is great news.

Right, I'd better get on with it then!

Edited September 24, 2012 by Fat Rich

[FLoydElgar]

Great news!
Just a few tips!
remember to relax the arms and body for the biggest sound with the bow! like an eletric bass play, closer to the bridge for harmonics and faster bow strokes!
Take your time with every aspect of the bass and enjoy it

Ask your tutor about the Sevcik book and Neil Tarlton, the genius himself!! its a book of small ££££ but probably the most valuable bowing book out there! I spend months working on one exercise as there are about 150 variations to 1 exercise - that really haves you using all of the areas on the bow! I'm a bass geek so.. yeah... I get a kick out of it lol..

[FLoydElgar]

To start I'd recommend the George Vance "rabbath" books!! It will have you playing music and up in the thumb position Another world of excitement

[oggiesnr]

[quote name='FLoydElgar' timestamp='1348511464' post='1814610']

Ask your tutor about the Sevcik book and Neil Tarlton, the genius himself!! its a book of small ££££ but probably the most valuable bowing book out there! I spend months working on one exercise as there are about 150 variations to 1 exercise - that really haves you using all of the areas on the bow! I'm a bass geek so.. yeah... I get a kick out of it lol..
[/quote]

+1 on the Sevcik even though it makes my brain hurt! Tarlton's scales book is also well worth the money.

Steve

[Fat Rich]

[quote name='FLoydElgar' timestamp='1348511464' post='1814610']
Great news!
Just a few tips!
remember to relax the arms and body for the biggest sound with the bow! like an eletric bass play, closer to the bridge for harmonics and faster bow strokes!
Take your time with every aspect of the bass and enjoy it

Ask your tutor about the Sevcik book and Neil Tarlton, the genius himself!! its a book of small ££££ but probably the most valuable bowing book out there! I spend months working on one exercise as there are about 150 variations to 1 exercise - that really haves you using all of the areas on the bow! I'm a bass geek so.. yeah... I get a kick out of it lol..
[/quote]
[quote name='oggiesnr' timestamp='1348512640' post='1814634']
+1 on the Sevcik even though it makes my brain hurt! Tarlton's scales book is also well worth the money.

Steve
[/quote]


Um..... we're kind of bypassing the whole bow thing .... I've ordered the Neil Tarlton scales book though on your recommendations, hopefully be through the post in a couple of days.

I'll see how things go playing pizz only, if it's not moving on then I'll reconsider the whole bowing thing.

[FLoydElgar]

AWESOME

[fatback]

[quote name='Fat Rich' timestamp='1348518451' post='1814773']
Um..... we're kind of bypassing the whole bow thing .... I've ordered the Neil Tarlton scales book though on your recommendations, hopefully be through the post in a couple of days.

I'll see how things go playing pizz only, if it's not moving on then I'll reconsider the whole bowing thing.
[/quote]

Probably the right decision. Best learning practice is to work up one skill at a time and then put them together. You can go for the bow in a year or whatever.

Biggest problem I have with the bow is that I haven't yet found a good compromise bass height for pizz and arco. I like the bass low for the sake of my left wrist, but that means I have to bend too much to bow, and the left wrist angle changes and screws up my intonation. I can work with that now, but when i first started it would have caused me demoralising problems.

One thing at a time works pretty well.

Edited September 25, 2012 by fatback

[FLoydElgar]

Practice everything equally 15 mins on each (thinking about the following: right hand, left hand, pizz, arco... etc... Its longer but you'll progress faster.
I.M.O... Its what I would teach to a student!

Use some sticky rosin, Kolstein all weather or pops (might be too sticky) and play long notes... Open D relax hand, relax arm then you notice big sound

Take your time and you'll be fine
Focus on only open strings for now... You are not expected to play any lines you normally would play with your right hand, so... do what is expected of you... Open strings full bow.. From Frog to tip...

Anyways... I have Some Vivaldi Cello sonata's to attack... Enjoy... Keep at it

Edited September 25, 2012 by FLoydElgar

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='fatback' timestamp='1348570782' post='1815254']Biggest problem I have with the bow is that I haven't yet found a good compromise bass height for pizz and arco. I like the bass low for the sake of my left wrist, but that means I have to bend too much to bow, and the left wrist angle changes and screws up my intonation. I can work with that now, but when i first started it would have caused me demoralising problems.[/quote]

I am now worried for your left wrist. Your wrist angle shouldn't have to change if the bass is high up - you simply raise your elbow to keep your wrist straight. Please do this, I don't want to have to worry about your wrists when I've currently got my own shoulder injury to worry about.

[FLoydElgar]

IF you are having shoulder issue, please look into Alexander Technique for the correct posture and remember to practice relaxation!

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='FLoydElgar' timestamp='1348601468' post='1815893']
IF you are having shoulder issue, please look into Alexander Technique for the correct posture and remember to practice relaxation![/quote]

Oh no it's not the bass causing the problem, it's a combination of working at a computer all day and driving a sh*t car with no power steering, and only really having any muscles on the front of my body and not the back, meaning my shoulders are pulled forwards and tendons are getting knackered. I'm a few weeks into physio to sort it out and it's going OK I think. Still not fixed but improving, and the bass is definitely not contributing to the problem.

[fatback]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1348599453' post='1815855']
I am now worried for your left wrist. Your wrist angle shouldn't have to change if the bass is high up - you simply raise your elbow to keep your wrist straight. Please do this, I don't want to have to worry about your wrists when I've currently got my own shoulder injury to worry about.
[/quote]

I know height shouldn't make a difference, in theory, but above a certain height the angle will change; you can only keep your elbow so high. I only notice because i'm hugely wrist conscious and for that reason never get problems. Ideally, the distance between the headstock and your head shouldn't change either, but it probably will for many people.

I do appreciate the concern though, as in the distant past i had RSI and wouldn't want anyone to go there.

Given that people's proportions differ so much, I'm not surprised that a good compromise height for arco ad pizz is hard to find. I'm guessing that the reason you don't see much written about this is that there isn't a height that suits everybody.

And I did ask a teacher about this, but being arco-minded, he favoured that height, while I like the comfort of a low bass for normal pizz.

Edited September 26, 2012 by fatback

[thisnameistaken]

With the bass at 'normal' height (with the nut about level with my eyebrows) I don't have any issues with keeping my wrist straight in the lowest positions. Doesn't that work for you?

[Clarky]

[sub]I play at that level but I noticed on a vid the other day that Chris Minh Doky plays with the nut around the top of his head level. Not sure if that would help or hinder in regards to the previous posts?
[/sub]

[Fat Rich]

Forgot to mention my teacher said my bass was too low, the stuff she's shown me about hand and arm position seems to work better and feel more natural with the bass higher.

I've got the pin fully extended and it's about 4 inches too short, the original pin doesn't seem to come out otherwise I'd just get a longer one, any ideas anyone? I'm currently practising with the bass on a step, it looks a bit like Tom Cruise's wedding photos.

[fatback]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1348659950' post='1816526']
With the bass at 'normal' height (with the nut about level with my eyebrows) I don't have any issues with keeping my wrist straight in the lowest positions. Doesn't that work for you?
[/quote]

That's my normal height for pizz, I'd say, but arco at that height means I have to bend a lot to bow midway between bridge and board. And that changes the angle for the arm pretty considerably in the low positions.

Starting to worry that it's because i'm hideously misshapen and nobody has had the heart to tell me.

Apologies to the OP for the O/T here.

[Fat Rich]

[quote name='fatback' timestamp='1348662704' post='1816586']
......
Apologies to the OP for the O/T here.
[/quote]

No worries, I'm just soaking up all information DB related at the moment!