Horseshoes? Toasters? Ashtrays? Is this a bass or a hardware shop? Calling Ricksperts!

[4 Strings]

Rickenbacker basses. Funny ole things, air of mystery about them. Never been brave enough to own one, don't want to die before I do.

Can someone help me with a couple of 'what's the difference' questions, please?

Am I right - a 4003 is the luxury version, with the 'stereo' output (which is really an output for each pup), the nice neck and body binding, cool shark's teeth fret markers and 'normal' single coil pups with a removable ashtray on the bridge pup?

And the 4001 the simpler version with a single output, no binding, plain ole dots and the weird neck pup with two magnetic strips, each with its own coil to buck the hum, making it look like a toaster, and the bizarre bridge pup where the magnetic field is created by a horseshoe magnet which goes under and over the strings, almost joining at the top?

If you take off the ashtray from a 4003 do you not see a similar pup to the neck pup, just with a huge chrome surround? Is the huge chrome surround to make it look like the horseshoe?

And is the bizarre horseshoe pup a throwback to their lap guitar making days?

Aren't you stuck with the top part of the horseshoe and so always have part of the strings covered over?

If the 4001 and 4003 have such different pups, surely they would sound totally different, and so which one has the 'Rick' sound, the odd 4001?

That lovely glowy sound that Macca got from his would be flats and the humbucking front pup of a 4001, and that church organy 'Rick' sound typical of Chris Squire is rounds with both ups on a 4001? The clank of Bruce Foxton is from Rotos on the back pup?

Any help would be greatly appreciated

[BigRedX]

There will be some proper Rick experts along in a minute, but I'll clear up a couple of things for you now.

The 4003 is simply the updated version of the 4001. The main difference between the two is that the 4003 has more conventional truss rods and the 4001 has the original sort that you need to slacken off first, adjust the neck by hand and then re-tighten. All the other variations are simply production variations over the years.

The horseshoe/cover over the bridge pickup was actually part of the magnet assembly on the very first 4001 basses and if you took it off the pickup ceased to function. At some point it changed to simply being a cover. IIRC if it has a split in the middle then it's part of the pickup and if its one piece then it's simply cosmetic and can be removed - although you'll probably want to do something about the hole around the pickup that will be revealed if you do.

[LeftyJ]

The 4001 is the old version, the 4003 is a slightly more modern version of the same bass with a dual trussrod to accommodate the higher string tension of roundwound strings. It completely replaced the 4001, except for some vintage reissues.
There's also a 4000, which is basically a plainer version of the 4001 but with just a bridge pickup. It's not in production anymore.

The simpler version you're referring to, without bindings and with dots, is the 4003s or 4001s. Some 4001s' will also have a set neck instead of a through-body neck

[stoker]

Also as far as I can remember the toaster p/up's on the 4001 are not humbucking, thats just the look of the cover.

[GregBass]

I just happen to have my 4001 here in the office with me today. It's a 1979, and I have owned it from the mid 80s. It has high output single coil pickups - earlier models had lower output jobbies - and they are indeed different pickups. The bridge pickup cover is removeable, but I keep mine in place. It has both stereo (labelled Ric-o-sound or SF) and mono outputs mounted on a single edge plate. Early models had checkerboard body binding, but by 79 they were using plain binding, and the neck is bound too. It also has the shark tooth fret markers.

I suspect you may be confusing it with the 4000, which had a single pickup and was hence only mono, and mostly had dot fret markers with no binding to neck or body. As far as I know, the [pickup cover is removeable on all models in the series - but I may be wrong on that.

[4 Strings]

If its a horseshoe then you def can't remove the top as this is the magnet.


[quote name='GregBass' timestamp='1348220412' post='1810952']
I just happen to have my 4001 here in the office with me today. It's a 1979, and I have owned it from the mid 80s. It has high output single coil pickups - earlier models had lower output jobbies - and they are indeed different pickups. The bridge pickup cover is removeable, but I keep mine in place. It has both stereo (labelled Ric-o-sound or SF) and mono outputs mounted on a single edge plate. Early models had checkerboard body binding, but by 79 they were using plain binding, and the neck is bound too. It also has the shark tooth fret markers.

I suspect you may be confusing it with the 4000, which had a single pickup and was hence only mono, and mostly had dot fret markers with no binding to neck or body. As far as I know, the [pickup cover is removeable on all models in the series - but I may be wrong on that.
[/quote]

Thanks for this. So the 'stereo' output, binding and fret markers etc are no indication of model, great!

If I understand correctly, the 4003 is simply an updated 4001 with options in finish, binding etc.

Did the single coils replace the horseshoe and toaster pups, and basses with those not available anymore, at least only in more recent reissue form, if at all?

Things are not becoming simpler!

[GregBass]

I seem to remember that one difference is that 4003 has been "adapted" for roundwound strings - harder fret material and beefed up trussrod. Having said that, I have used roundwounds on mine for over 20 years with no issues.

I may be on dodgy ground here - and I'm sure some of the experts will put me right if I am mistaken - but I think the toasters were just single coil pickups with a cover. Also, the horseshoe is just a two-part cover for the bridge pickup. I believe it's part of the pickup assembly, but not part of the pickup itself.

[4 Strings]

..And what's with the curly bit at the end of the headstock sometimes curling under, sometimes curling over?

And the neck sandwich being of different colour woods, sometimes?

[4 Strings]

[quote name='GregBass' timestamp='1348221793' post='1810986'] I seem to remember that one difference is that 4003 has been "adapted" for roundwound strings - harder fret material and beefed up trussrod. Having said that, I have used roundwounds on mine for over 20 years with no issues. I may be on dodgy ground here - and I'm sure some of the experts will put me right if I am mistaken - but I think the toasters were just single coil pickups with a cover. Also, the horseshoe is just a two-part cover for the bridge pickup. I believe it's part of the pickup assembly, but not part of the pickup itself. [/quote]

Right, here's something I can answer! The horseshoe is definitely the magnet on those pups and is not removable.

[luckman67]

The upside down headstock is the C64 & C64S (sanded), which gives the right handed player the look of McCartneys left handed Ric which had a right handed neck.

The original horseshoe covers were the magnets, which wrapped round the pickup.And the 4003 was just a modern version of the 4001, having the trussrods upgradded so you could use Rotosound or heavier gauge strings. Though a lot of the 4001's managed to work just as well with Rotosound strings, step forward Mr. Chris Squire.

I waited 11 years to own one and it has been my main bass for the past 14 years, they are a great bass but they are not for everyone. I used to want a Warwick bass until I played one, hood looking basses just didn't like how it felt.

[GregBass]

Thanks for the corrections, guys - I did say I was on dodgy ground with the older pickups.

luckman - I own a couple of Warwick Corvettes - an old passive, which feels so right it's - well - right, that I bought from Jigster and a newer active that doesn't suit my left hand at all. The passive is now my go-to bass, and the Rick is one that I pick up occasionally to play at home. Funny old world, eh?

[bremen]

While we're here:

Urban myths or true stories - Bruce Foxton's 'Rick' was a copy, and most of Chris Squire's recordings were done on a Jazz.

?

[Beedster]

[quote name='bremen' timestamp='1348227277' post='1811073']
While we're here:

Urban myths or true stories - Bruce Foxton's 'Rick' was a copy, and most of Chris Squire's recordings were done on a Jazz.

?
[/quote]

Jaco played a Hofner as well

Oh, that reminds me Chris, I owe you some money!

[bremen]

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1348227524' post='1811079']
Jaco played a Hofner as well

Oh, that reminds me Chris, I owe you some money!
[/quote]

Urban myths then?

Shhh! HMRC are listening!

[luckman67]

[quote name='bremen' timestamp='1348227277' post='1811073']
While we're here:

Urban myths or true stories - Bruce Foxton's 'Rick' was a copy, and most of Chris Squire's recordings were done on a Jazz.

?
[/quote]

Foxton's first Ric was an Ibanez copy bouhjt for him, by his girlfriend at the time.I think that this is the same bass that ends up with the P pickup in it, for the Thats Entertainment video.
Chris used a Jazz on some recordings he also used a Telecaster bass, that had a Jazz pickup installed so this could have given him a Jazz bass sound. Plus with all the effects Chris uses, he could play an Encore bass and still make it sound like his Ric.

[4 Strings]

I believe he used a Jazz for some, eg The Gates Of Delirium, sounds like a Jazz, Roundabout sounds like a Rick as does most of the rest of his catalogue.

[EMG456]

Something I know a bit about...

I'm not entirely sure of the dates below but I've generally speaking had at least one Rick since 1974 and at the time I was mad keen on them so I'm pretty certain of most of my facts here.

As has been stated;

4000 Bass - No Neck pickup, 1 vol, 1 Tone, dot markers on the rosewood fingerboard, no body binding. Not sure about neck binding but suspect none. I believe Rick 4000's were all set neck, not neck through construction.
4001 Bass - Dual Pickup, two Vol, Two Tone, Three way switch, mono and stereo output sockets, triangle markers on fingerboard, bound body and neck.
4001s bass - budget version of the 4001 imported by Rose Morris to the UK as the Rick 1999 model. Essentially a 4001 but with no body binding and with dot inlays instead of the triangles.

The 4001s was the bass played by McCartney and Squire - Ricks were cheap enough in the States for them not to have to worry too much about the costs there but here in the UK they were very expensive hence a lot of 1999/ 4001s basses imported in the '60s/ early '70s

All Rick bass necks have dual truss rods but they don't work the same way that say, Fender truss rods work, in that they don't always take very kindly to just being tightened up more and more - the procedure is to "help" them by applying pressure to bend the neck whilst tightening up the truss rod. Loosening strings first helps too. Interestingly, the traditional Rick truss rods are easily replaced with no surgery to the instrument - once the nut is loosened and removed, the whole assembly slides out of the slot through the body end of the neck. What they did with the 4003 truss rods I don't know but as has been stated before, 4001's always worked fine with roundwound strings - indeed it's one of the archetypal Rick bass sounds. Roundwounds do not intrinsically have higher tension than flatwounds as far as I know so I'm guessing that any percieved problems were as much to do with folks not understanding how the truss rod system was meant to be used rather than any underlying problem with the design. Bear in mind though that unlike a Fender type bass, if the neck goes irreparably wrong, the bass is essentially ruined - you can't just bolt on a replacement neck!

Horseshoe pickup was replaced in the bridge position by the so-called high gain pickup sometime in the late '60's early '70s. Both of the '72 4001's I have owned did not have the horseshoe. You are right that the horseshoe pickup goes right back to Rickenbacker's "frying pan" lap steel guitar, generally accredited as being the first real electric guitar as we know them. Yes, the horseshoe magnet doubles as the pickup cover and can't be removed.

Up to some point in '72/ '73 the 4001 body binding was two layer with the inner layer being black/ white chequered and the triangle inlays were full width of the fingerboard made of crushed sparkle material. After that, the body binding was reduced to one layer with no chequered effect and the inlays were more conventional "mother of plastic" and didn't cover the full width of the board. Around about this time, the toaster pickup in the neck position was replaced by one which looks more like the high gain bridge pickup in a little chrome case.

In the sixties, Rick used mahogany wings on the outside edges of the headstock al-la Squire and McCartney's basses and later on just used extra pieces of maple.

To save costs originally, the left hand models simply used standard right hand necks - this is why Macca's bass has essentially a reversed headstock.

More recently, I think around the early '90s to early '00s, Rick reissued the 60s styled 4001s/ 1999 as the 4003 V63 and also a C64 version which has the reversed headstock of Macca's bass even on right handed versions and the removal of the body edge contours again echoing Macca's bass which he sanded down himself!

Interesting (if you're an anorak like me) piece of Rick/ Fender/ Beatles trivia. The 4001 shape was designed for Rickenbacker by Roger Rossmeisl. In the late 60's Rossmeisl worked for Fender and was in charge of building the special prototypes of the all Rosewood Telecaster and Stratocaster guitars. One of those Tele's was going to be presented to George Harrison so two were built by Rossmeisl and a hot shot young luthier working at Fender at the time, Phillip Kubicki. Yes, "that" Phillip Kubicki! The better of the two Tele prototypes was given to Harrison during the sessions for the Let it Be album and George can be seen playing it in the final gig on the roof of Apple building.

Cheers

Ed

[4 Strings]

Goodness, Ed, thank you so much, I think that clears up virtually everything with some interesting additions! Thanks for spending the time to get that all down, a succinct history of the 4000 series.

Interesting the most famous Ricks are the cheaper Rick-Lite versions sent over for us 3rd World Limeys.

So, if I see a horseshoe/toaster I'm looking at a vintage Rick, if I see dots and no binding I'm looking at one the 1999s and, for the most part, if I see a gigging Rick it'll be a 4003, if I see an upward curl its a Macca copy.

Did I pass?

[4000]

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1348222520' post='1810997']
Right, here's something I can answer! The horseshoe is definitely the magnet on those pups and is not removable.
[/quote]

Unless it's a reissue horseshoe (as on V63/C-Series/CS) in which case they're [i]not[/i] the magnet and [i]are[/i] removable.

FWIW, toasters are single coil, as are horseshoes, as are hi-gains. The 4004 comes with humbuckers.

Ricks from mid-'72 onwards up to around the time of the first 4003s had the "skunk stripe", which was shedua. I have 2 x '72 4001s, one with, one without.

If you want to get all the (myriad) details, go to the Rick Resource Forum. Despite its reputation there are some great people on there who really, really know their stuff.

[4000]

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1348253376' post='1811559']
Goodness, Ed, thank you so much, I think that clears up virtually everything with some interesting additions! Thanks for spending the time to get that all down, a succinct history of the 4000 series.

Interesting the most famous Ricks are the cheaper Rick-Lite versions sent over for us 3rd World Limeys.

So, if I see a horseshoe/toaster I'm looking at a vintage Rick, if I see dots and no binding I'm looking at one the 1999s and, for the most part, if I see a gigging Rick it'll be a 4003, if I see an upward curl its a Macca copy.

Did I pass?
[/quote]

If you see a horseshoe/toaster you're looking at either a vintage Rick, a CS / V63 or C-Series (all reissues, more or less), or a bass with retrofitted pickups. You can still buy toasters so far as I'm aware. Intermittently they sell the reissue 'shoes too, or you can occasionally pick them up for an enormous sum on ebay. The originals are even harder to come by.

Although all the RM1999s were unbound, not all unbound basses are RMs. The 4000 and 4001s (both unbound) were regular models that were made through the '60s and '70s. The RMs were the '60s UK import version, but that doesn't mean all the unbound '60s basses you'll find are RMs. If you see a gigging Rick it's just as likely to be a 4001 as a 4003 and if you see an upside down head it's a C-Series (4001C64 IIRC). The Macca copy is the 4001C64s (which also has an upside down head), the "s" denoting "sanded" to reflect Macca's sanding of the body horns.

Clear?

[Panamonte]

Thanks Ed for that fantastically informative post - brilliant!

[Musky]

Just a quick point regarding the horseshoe pickups and the covers being unremovable. I have a 67/68 4001s without a cover - about one or two years ago I discovered it was in fact a horseshoe pickup, [i]sans[/i] cover. I've no idea why it works, but it does. Louder than the toaster and nice and punchy.

If anyone is really interested in nailing the details of Rick basses they could do worse than having a read through the articles linked to [url="http://www.rickresource.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=388361"]here[/url].

[4 Strings]

Clear, yes, thanks, learning curve beginning to teeter backwards now, though I knew it wasn't going to be simple.

I suppose, for the time being, I still don't really know what I'm looking at as the rules get blurred by reissues!

By a 'gigging' bass I just meant one not being pampered and so perhaps more likely to be a later model.

Quite fancy a 4000, prob quite rare (don't remember ever seeing one).

Thanks for all the info, appreciated, certainly increased my fascination with these basses.

Edited September 21, 2012 by 4 Strings

[4000]

I had a '73 4000. Absolute beast of a thing. The first time I used it at rehearsal I came in part way through a song and the band all stopped & turned round to see what the racket was. It was much more aggressive than any of my 4001s. Very versatile too. Shouldn't have sold it, but I had a bad gig with it and I guess it took the blame. It made my old Statii sound like banjos.

I happily gig both my '72 4001s and they're pretty near bullet proof. The only times I don't use them is when they don't suit what I'm doing.

[4 Strings]

Hoo, 4000 sounds even better now! Have to keep an open for one of those.

I'm gong to be dreaming Ricks when I sleep