jamesbass116 Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 I've done a fair bit of music work in my 19 years on this earth... I've got function gigs up the wazoo and regular gigs with 3 bands including one with serious label interest. However, despite all this I've come across so much ignorance towards me from certain people simply because I'm a 'kid'. I could act as professionally and friendly as possible to someone yet still be treated like I'm trying to use my bass headstock as a pacifier. I don't and never will understand this mindset at all. I can guarantee there are a lot of people twice/three times my age with far less playing experience that will be given regular and friendly service in music shops, or treated with respect at a gig etc... I'm sure I'm not the only one who's come across this in their lives. Has anyone ever experienced something similar? If so what was it? Or, if you've never been involved in something like this, how would you react if you had been? Now this is by no means a rant, nor am I trying to incite any kind of hateful retorts. This is simply meant to be a discussion on an issue of ageism in correlation to the perception of musical experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skidder652003 Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 well, all i remember about being in bands in my 20's was the fantastic attention we used to get from the opposite sex! Nowdays 40's we are completely invisible except to old blokes who come up after gigs and say how we transported em back to thier youth, and " i used to play a strat/in a band" etc, etc, etc... seriously, don't worry if some treat you with a little ignorance, what i would give to be your age with the so called "experience" of my older years (still probably f**k up my chances though!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdowner Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 You have to face the fact that you live in a pretty mediocre world where *most* people aren't that sophisticated or smart. In general they follow stereotypes and simplistic models of the way the world and its people work. To them you're just an average 19 year old - and not even that as the media continues to portray 19 year olds as infantile 'yoofs' to ease cultural digestion by the mindless masses. That's the way it is. Just continue being professional and smile to yourself until you eventually reach an age when you are treated as an 'old fogey' (probably at about 50 - though by the time you get there, more like 40 the way the mass media is going) and you can worry about your old-age stereotype with a degree of calm. You live in an ignorant world and you're probably not going to change it I'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 Wouldn't worry about it....you're giging and deemed good enough by your bands Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 The only thing I can say is treat people how you would like to be treated yourself and hopefully it will come back to you. Sometimes, unfortunately that is not always the case. In the times when it doesn't the people concerned are generally not worth loosing sleep over anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 don't worry about it. It saves you money. At some point (and for me it was linked to my hair starting to disappear at a young age) you go into music shops, they are nice and friendly and throw basses at you to try- and if you ask to try the £3000 bass they have they say "of course" - then you realise you don't have the money to spend on all these nice basses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 Sometimes I come across people that say 'I've been playing guitar for 20 years', and it turns out, the best thing they have to boast about from that 20 years playing guitar, is that they've been playing guitar for 20 years. They aren't looking down on you because you are 19, they are looking down on you because you dress stupid, and can't grow a beard, and are probably on their lawn, like all the other young people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 I know how you feel. I'm 41 & thanks to my youthful looks, I still get the odd 40 year old person trying to treat me like he's got more experience in music than I (he might well do, who knows? I've only been playing bass for @ 27 years & it's still my most recent instrument to learn). You're the one with the regular gigs, so look at the positives in getting treated like a noob. You can surprise them with your skills & if that doesn't do it, forget them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wil Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1348388953' post='1812895'] They aren't looking down on you because you are 19, they are looking down on you because you dress stupid, and can't grow a beard, and are probably on their lawn, like all the other young people. [/quote] Brilliant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 plus music like most things is something where the nicer you are, and the nicer you are to work with then the better you do generally. You say you "could" act friendly and professional. I suggest you lump it and just be nice and smile and don't let it get to you and learn the habits that mean when you are 40 you will be a good guy and musican to work with rather than a grumpy old fart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 As a relative oldie I would say that I generally don't try to offer people "the benefit of my experience" unless it's asked for. Let the music do the talking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1348387767' post='1812880'] ....Wouldn't worry about it....you're giging and deemed good enough by your bands.... [/quote] +1 (It's not an age thing. I hate [i]anyone[/i] that plays better than I do!!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 [quote name='jamesbass116' timestamp='1348369256' post='1812826'] I've done a fair bit of music work in my 19 years on this earth... I've got function gigs up the wazoo and regular gigs with 3 bands including one with serious label interest. However, despite all this I've come across so much ignorance towards me from certain people simply because I'm a 'kid'. I could act as professionally and friendly as possible to someone yet still be treated like I'm trying to use my bass headstock as a pacifier. I don't and never will understand this mindset at all. I can guarantee there are a lot of people twice/three times my age with far less playing experience that will be given regular and friendly service in music shops, or treated with respect at a gig etc.[/quote] IME, depending on who's doing it a lot of this is nervousness on the part of some people who can't handle someone so young being able to relate to them on the same level, it's just how some people deal with such an awkward feeling for them. If you get it from those on any level of authority, labels, promoters etc. it's often just a feeble way of trying to establish their authority. You're obviously doing nothing wrong, descending to their level can only do you harm, + you've no reason to nark anyone so just keep doing what you're doing, it'll all work itself out eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Dave Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 I think what you're talking about is a life issue rather than just a musical one. Older folk do seem to diss the young's abilities a bit. As a gigging non youngster though , I get the other side of the coin. We've even been told that when we were seen earlier setting up gear that the punters thought we were the band's Dads !! I tend to not worry about it too much and remind myself of the tale of the two bulls. One old and one young. 'See those cows over in that field' says the young bull. 'Let's charge over and shag a couple'. 'No' says the old bull. 'Let's stroll over and shag the lot'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurksalot Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 I still get the big I am , from a few angles , mostly customers , who generally have been given advice by mates in the pub that are experts in everything after a couple of pints. Generally , if someone needs to argue how 20 years of experience gives them one up on you , you might find that they only have one years experience and it is 20 years old !! Learning to handle/ignore/influence/learn from these people is what your experience will teach you . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3below Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 Enjoy being young and talented, at the other end is being old and treated as if you are past it This is just as annoying. Perhaps there is a slot in the middle when you get treated at the age you are, think I missed that bit though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Vincent Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 Whilst not meaning to sound like a disrespectful old git, exactly how much experience can you have at the age of 19? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdowner Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 [quote name='Spike Vincent' timestamp='1348399189' post='1813088'] Whilst not meaning to sound like a disrespectful old git, exactly how much experience can you have at the age of 19? [/quote] How do you judge quality and not just quantity though? 1 year of spending every moment at the knee of marcus millar may be worth 20 years of shuffling around in your bedroom pretending to be someone you're not. Most of us are probably somewhere in the middle, but it's hard to put a measure on 'experience'. How 'experienced' was Yahudi Mehenuin (or however it's spelt!) at 19? Could still blow the socks off you with his Beethoven's Violin Concerto! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesbass116 Posted September 23, 2012 Author Share Posted September 23, 2012 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1348388953' post='1812895'] They aren't looking down on you because you are 19, they are looking down on you because you dress stupid, and can't grow a beard, and are probably on their lawn, like all the other young people. [/quote] Haha! Well I can't argue with that... Their lawns are just so good for hanging out and doing drug deals on though! ... Thanks for the replies as well everyone! It's interesting to see that older people also have to deal with the same situations but with the roles swapped around. There's also been some great advice on here as well. Stuff which I'll definitely take into account to make myself more 'thick skinned'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttitudeCastle Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 (edited) This is definitely food for thought, I usually get no "ageist" treatement (I'm 17) but my band mates (the same age) usually do, are are usually talked down to where as I tend to be communicated with on the same level. Though my friends/bandmates do have an air of naivety I'd say and don't really understand the music world beyond writing and playing it. where as I've toured Europe as a Classical musician and as a bass player and have learnt how to act and what to do pretty quick and have learnt so much from others and watching and listening and getting out there, organising things myself. I see myself as rather old fashioned (as old fashioned as a 17 year old can be!) and have tried to do things the way my heroes, mentors and friends have but in a modern setting, so working from the ground up. Or so to speak. I'm rambling how so will pipe down... That said, I feel like I fit in better with those a bit older than me. (Ahem Basschat! ) But i'd say yes, just take it on the chin really and have not much more to say than has already been said. Some people are just moody, C'est la vie! Edited September 23, 2012 by AttitudeCastle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesbass116 Posted September 23, 2012 Author Share Posted September 23, 2012 [quote name='Spike Vincent' timestamp='1348399189' post='1813088'] Whilst not meaning to sound like a disrespectful old git, exactly how much experience can you have at the age of 19? [/quote] Well... A fair amount actually. And not just pub gigs. I've played at the Royal Albert hall, O2 Academy and tons of clubs as well as wedding venues and the like. Without sounding arrogant, the standard has always been extremely high. Like Lowdowner said, the quality of the experience matters more than quantity, and I'd like to think for the most part (except for my occasional bad nights!) that if one of my bands are asked to do a gig we'd do it to a very high quality! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassace Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 [quote name='lowdowner' timestamp='1348402572' post='1813143'] How 'experienced' was Yahudi Mehenuin (or however it's spelt!) at 19? Could still blow the socks off you with his Beethoven's Violin Concerto! [/quote] But couldn't play jazz for toffee. Whose idea was it to pair him up with Grappelli? Talking about jazz tho', there is a lot of tolerance/support of younger musicians, especially those starting out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademan_98 Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 [quote name='Spike Vincent' timestamp='1348399189' post='1813088'] Whilst not meaning to sound like a disrespectful old git, exactly how much experience can you have at the age of 19? [/quote] Well, if he started playing at 12 and had his first gig at 15 (like in the other thread on here about a 15 year old guitarist) and now he's 19 thats around 7 years experience..... I don't know about you but I have not played the Royal Albert Hall and I've been playing for 35 years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 You'll look back and wish for this kind of ageism one day. When you get older you won't be able to audition for bands who are looking for 18-24 years olds. Its swings and roundabouts as are most things in life. Don't be offended and its not something thats limited to the music business. Most people though will cut you slack if you can back it up with your playing. We recently had a dep drummer (20) standing in for our regular guy (50ish). The dep was great. We didn't think about his age. As far as a working musician he could either play or not - and he could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 Don't get offended, just let your playing do the talking for you. I started gigging when I was young too (I guess I still am relatively young at 23) but it's your [i]playing[/i] that counts. Most of the guy that would be quick to tell you that you're too young will soon shut up when you start to play if you're a good player who's got a professional attitude. Act your age as well though, there's nothing worse than being old before your time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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