Powerballs (oo err missus)

[gapiro]

My guitarist friend has got one of those powerball things (the gyroscope wrist strengtheners things)
He [i]claims [/i] it made a huge difference to his wrist strength and helped him with guitar speed.

I'm a bit sceptical (he talks a lot of crap) so I thought i'd ask the BC population of their thoughts


(link to the sort of thing I mean: https://www.powerballs.com )

[chrismuzz]

I've got one of those. It's annoying. Only used it once or twice!

[Balcro]

I was given one a few years ago. Amusing as a toy, but whether it's really got any medical benefits I can't say.

I hurt my forearm/hand indulging in 10 pin bowling with the grandson a few years ago. It took 9 months to heal. I tried the powerball for 5 minutes after about 4 months into the recovery. It seemed to free up the stiffness in the wrist in an odd sort of way.
After that I tried it about once a month for the next 3 months with no ill effects. So overall it might help in a subtle way, but like a lot of things don't use it to excess.

Balcro

[RhysP]

Waste of time & money IMO.
You don't need any more strength in the wrist or fingers to play a guitar or bass than just regularly playing your instrument will give you.
Things like this can also actually increase the risk of developing tendonitis.

Edited September 23, 2012 by RhysP

[Matt P]

i haven;t tried the powerball but i did buy a gripmaster a while back, and didn't get on with it at all, the guy in the climbing shop recommended one of these
http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-gb/shop/mountain/accessories/forearm-trainer

it's great, they're cheap and smallish so i have one on my work desk, one at home and one in my bag, they're great for warming up when you haven't got an instrument in your hand, perfect for before sound check and then that gap between sound check and performance. or just as something to play with while on the phone or reading Basschat.

Matt

[Stacker]

I have one. Haven't used it for some time bit I saw it as being good for maintaing forearm muscle tone. It was good for that but whereas I can see it assisting those with injuries I can't say it helps improve one's playing.

[Doddy]

For playing bass,Powerballs,Gripmasters and the like are not going to help. You don't need strong hands
or wrists to play bass. For every minute you spend playing with one of them is a minute that would be
better spent playing your instrument,which would be more beneficial to your playing.

[xilddx]

You have reminded me that I bought one after the last thread about them They seem ok, great forearm workout.

[Coilte]

[quote name='RhysP' timestamp='1348403002' post='1813150']
Waste of time & money IMO.
You don't need any more strength in the wrist or fingers to play a guitar or bass than just regularly playing your instrument will give you.
Things like this can also actually increase the risk of developing tendonitis.
[/quote]


+100. I can never understand why people seem to think that you need strength like "Popeye" to play the bass or guitar.




[quote name='Matt P' timestamp='1348404124' post='1813161']
i haven;t tried the powerball but i did buy a gripmaster a while back, and didn't get on with it at all, the guy in the climbing shop recommended one of these
[url="http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-gb/shop/mountain/accessories/forearm-trainer"]http://www.blackdiam...forearm-trainer[/url]

[/quote]


That looks like a gripping device too, in which case it is useless from a bass playing aspect. Why ? Because it is the opposite of gripping that is required to play the bass,. i.e. the lifting of the fingers [b]off [/b]the fretboard and placing them elsewhere to play another note, is what's important. Dexterity and stamina are quite different to strength. Minimal strength is required to fret a string.

[Bo0tsy]

I've got one but considered it as a novelty toy with no real benefit to playing a bass.

[risingson]

There was a thread a while back about this where I argued that I thought that they weren't totally useless and got into a bit of a debate with another poster.

Personally I do not use one. But put it this way, any exercise, musical or not that warms the muscles of your forearm up before playing is going to go some way to helping you perform to your potential. Bass playing can be seen like an exercise, typically when you lift weights in a gym for example you would not throw yourself in at the deep end with the heaviest dumbbells in the gym without doing potential damage to your muscles, instead, you start out with lower weights and work your way up to begin with. The power ball accesses and utilises your forearm muscles in what is known as a compound move (more than one muscle group being used to achieve the exercise) which would suggest to me that actually, once you've got your blood supply pumping to the right place in your body, this does indeed constitute at least a step in the right direction to a decent warmup and as we all probably know, muscles work best when they're warm.

Personally I'm an advocate of warming up on your bass first and foremost as exercising in context is important, especially before gigging. But I also see no reason why if you think a Powerball would go some way to helping you out in your warmup routine that you shouldn't use one.

Edited September 23, 2012 by risingson

[mcnach]

[quote name='gapiro' timestamp='1348396645' post='1813032']
My guitarist friend has got one of those powerball things (the gyroscope wrist strengtheners things)
He [i]claims [/i] it made a huge difference to his wrist strength and helped him with guitar speed.

I'm a bit sceptical (he talks a lot of crap) so I thought i'd ask the BC population of their thoughts


(link to the sort of thing I mean: [url="https://www.powerballs.com"]https://www.powerballs.com[/url] )
[/quote]


I bought one when I switched to bass and I wanted to practice fingerstyle, as I'd get tired quickly and my fingers would just cramp when trying to play fast.
Within a week of powerball use I started to notice an improvement.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1348418658' post='1813396']
+100. I can never understand why people seem to think that you need strength like "Popeye" to play the bass or guitar.


[/quote]

in my case it was not strength, but stamina, for fingerstyle. It helped me a lot more than simply just playing. Good warm up too.

[lurksalot]

come along now gents,

A predominantly male discussion group discussing methods of improving wrist stamina and no one has mentioned 99 then change hands ?

[shizznit]

I had one for Xmas 4yrs ago. I used it for about 5mins for each hand for about 6 months. I didn't notice any significant change, but that wasn't the reason why I stopped using it. I looked like a pleb using it and folks were taking the mick out of me!

Not as bad as this bloke though...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0v05iaYZC0&sns=em

[chrismuzz]

On the subject of wrist exercises helping or not helping with bass playing...

I have been seriously weightlifting for about 4 months now, and twice a week I do dumbbell wrist curls. It hasn't helped my bass playing in the way of speed or anything.. But it HAS dramatically increased my strength and endurance so that I can play hard for much much longer without my arm feeling fatigued!

I do 2 hour long metal gigs quite often and I can definitely assure you I've noticed a difference

Edited September 23, 2012 by chrismuzz

[risingson]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1348437422' post='1813721']
in my case it was not strength, but stamina, for fingerstyle. It helped me a lot more than simply just playing. Good warm up too.
[/quote]

I think one or two people might be labouring under the slight misapprehension that these things are going to be detrimental because 'strength' isn't necessary factor in playing bass guitar. Quite right, however strength in part comes from improved muscle mass and that will simply not be achieved with these powerball things as the work the muscle group is doing simply isn't strenuous enough.

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1348438783' post='1813735']
On the subject of wrist exercises helping or not helping with bass playing...

I have been seriously weightlifting for about 4 months now, and twice a week I do dumbbell wrist curls. It hasn't helped my bass playing in the way of speed or anything.. But it HAS dramatically increased my strength and endurance so that I can play hard for much much longer without my arm feeling fatigued!

I do 2 hour long metal gigs quite often and I can definitely assure you I've noticed a difference
[/quote]

Likewise, for me also. Dumbbell curls include your forearms as synergist muscles, the muscles that aid the target muscle in the travel and completion of the move.

[mcnach]

[quote name='shizznit' timestamp='1348438343' post='1813733']
I had one for Xmas 4yrs ago. I used it for about 5mins for each hand for about 6 months. I didn't notice any significant change,
[/quote]

i used it 3-4 times everyday for longer than 5min, building up slowly each time and then reducing speed gradually. 5min once a day may just not be enough

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1348447237' post='1813811']


i used it 3-4 times everyday for longer than 5min, building up slowly each time and then reducing speed gradually. 5min once a day may just not be enough
[/quote]

Must not be a great workout then! It takes me about 6 minutes I do 4x12 reps of wrist curls, then I do another 4x12 of reverse ones (palms facing down). Doing this 2x a week equates to a total of 24 minutes of isolated wrist/forearm exercises a week and that's plenty!

Edited September 24, 2012 by chrismuzz

[gapiro]

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1348441734' post='1813776']


I think one or two people might be labouring under the slight misapprehension that these things are going to be detrimental because 'strength' isn't necessary factor in playing bass guitar. Quite right, however strength in part comes from improved muscle mass and that will simply not be achieved with these powerball things as the work the muscle group is doing simply isn't strenuous enough
[/quote]

Excuse me for ignorance, but how can building more strength have a negative effect as opposed to a lack of positive effect? Is it because you have more to move ?

[risingson]

[quote name='gapiro' timestamp='1348471119' post='1813856']
Excuse me for ignorance, but how can building more strength have a negative effect as opposed to a lack of positive effect? Is it because you have more to move ?
[/quote]

I wouldn't say that strength has a negative effect on bass playing whatsoever. But the point is that you shouldn't have to fight your bass guitar to play it as it's not considered proper technique, consequently strength shouldn't come into bass playing at all. Endurance on the other hand has a lot to do with bass playing.

[Coilte]

Regarding strength and bass playing, lets discuss for a second, just how much (or more to the point....how little) is required. Try fretting a note without the thumb on the neck. Press gently until the note rings clearly. This is the total strength required to fret a string. This strength has been there in most healthy people since about the age of seven or eight years of age.


So, can someone explain the need for lifting weights etc., when so little strength is required ?????


As pointed out above by "risingson", endurance (stamina) and dexterity are what's needed. The former is best achieved by gradually building up your playing time on the bass.

As I mentioned earlier, the lifting of the fingers [b]off of the fretboard[/b] (the opposite to gripping) without them getting in each others way, is what's required in fretting. This agility and nimbleness lets us move around the FB with ease, and has nothing to do with strength.

I firmly believe in warming up and down afterwards with hand/wrist/finger stretches first, then slowly playing chromatic scales etc above the fourth fret for a couple of minutes. After this, I usually stretch the hands/fingers again, then I am ready to play.

[mcnach]

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1348447493' post='1813812']
Must not be a great workout then! It takes me about 6 minutes I do 4x12 reps of wrist curls, then I do another 4x12 of reverse ones (palms facing down). Doing this 2x a week equates to a total of 24 minutes of isolated wrist/forearm exercises a week and that's plenty!
[/quote]


It was a great workout with great results in very little time.
You train one way or another depending on the objective. I started weight-lifting in my late teens, and I experienced first hand various ways of training. I can bulk up pretty fast if I wanted to, and I can develop strength geared towards sustained exercise or just short bursts... each objective is achieved more easily with a particular way of exercising.

With the powerball, I only wanted to make my fingers stop tiring after a few minutes of fast playing. My first band on bass was a metal band and I tried to do with fingers what I could normally do with a plectrum. INcidentally, my forearms have always been my weak point. I never trained them much and sometimes they are y limiting factor when it comes to exercise.
I chose the powerball (a climber friend of mine recommended it to me) because... I admit it, I was curious about it, the toy aspect of it and the colours etc but once I tried it I realised it allows you to make very gradual increases and decreases of strength, and the fact you were rotating the wrist seemed to do something that wrist curls etc would not do. As my objective was to improve stamina, I chose to exercise regularly, and moderately. It was a great work out because within a week or so I could notice the difference.
This is not to substitute practice on the bass. I still did that. But whilst practice alone only helped me at a certain rate, getting the powerball was like turbocharging my improvement.
Unlike most of my weight lifting, I did not do it until my limit and to tire myself out. I did it to sustain a moderate level of exercise, where I feel my forearm muscles work, and get warm, without getting very tired: if I got tired I'd lose dexterity. Ever tried to play guitar right after a weight lifting session?
After 3-4 weeks I stopped using the powerball entirely...

[mcnach]

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1348476361' post='1813905']
I firmly believe in warming up and down afterwards with hand/wrist/finger stretches first, then slowly playing chromatic scales etc above the fourth fret for a couple of minutes. After this, I usually stretch the hands/fingers again, then I am ready to play.
[/quote]

Agreed. That's pretty much what I do. ESpecially when playing in a cold venue/outdoor... warm up is very important. I achieve that by quiet unplugged practice prior to starting the gig.

But that works because I have been playing a while now and I do it regularly.
When starting out, a little extra help can be good in the form of non-bass exercises. Geared towards stamina more than strength since -like you correctly pointed out- you don't really need a lot of strength to fret a note.

[funkypenguin]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1348418324' post='1813392']
For playing bass,Powerballs,Gripmasters and the like are not going to help. You don't need strong hands
or wrists to play bass. For every minute you spend playing with one of them is a minute that would be
better spent playing your instrument,which would be more beneficial to your playing.
[/quote]

This