Sloppy B's what is that all about?

[Pinball]

I have some 5 stringers with B strings and a 4 stringer with BEAD tuning all of which play great but I keep reading on Basschat about sloppy B strings. Then today I played a new Fender with...you guessed it, a sloppy B string??

How can this be??? If the scales and tension are the same what makes them sloppy?? Is it the make of strings that are used? I can't think of anything else.

I'd appreciate it if someone would explain. If this is a dumb question please excuse me but I can't get my head around it!

[Kongo]

Make of string will cater a lot to this. I've broken one of my basses playability once trying different strings. Never again.
Scale length by science says longer is better, but the best Low-B I ever had was on an Ibanez RD405, which I sadly no longer own. That was a 34" scale.
That being said, Fender still use the old tried and tested designs, but if I may be so bold I think they make better 4-string than 5-string basses. That;s just IMHO, however. I don't like the B-string on my Jazz V.

[Mykesbass]

Pretty sure it is not dumb at all Pinball. In my opinion it is one of those where the science and theory don't equate to reality - a bit like the fact that bumble bees can't fly!

Hopefully someone will be able to give a definitive answer but I've only ever seen opinion on here when this question has been asked before.

[Pinball]

[quote name='Kongo' timestamp='1348883557' post='1819524']
Make of string will cater a lot to this. I've broken one of my basses playability once trying different strings. Never again.
Scale length by science says longer is better, but the best Low-B I ever had was on an Ibanez RD405, which I sadly no longer own. That was a 34" scale.
That being said, Fender still use the old tried and tested designs, but if I may be so bold I think they make better 4-string than 5-string basses. That;s just IMHO, however. I don't like the B-string on my Jazz V.
[/quote]
Thanks for the replies. I have been trying out a whole load of basses and in 4's the USA Fenders are still the ones that set the bar in my opinion (I want one or a Sandberg maybe). That is why I was gobsmacked by my playing experience of the 5. Maybe it was just that one guitar but I just couldn't get my head around it.

Edited September 29, 2012 by Pinball

[Chris2112]

Fender have long been associated with crap low B's. Though Stuart Hamm's OB1 Urge II sounded great.

[chrismuzz]

It's to do with the break angle. If there's a sharper angle at the nut, and/or the bridge, the strings will have less compliance... Basically they will feel tighter, more secure, without an increase in actual tension

[Muzz]

Dingwall!

[Pinball]

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1348932239' post='1819896']
It's to do with the break angle. If there's a sharper angle at the nut, and/or the bridge, the strings will have less compliance... Basically they will feel tighter, more secure, without an increase in actual tension
[/quote]

Aah that would help explain it. There has to be some sort of technical reason. Assuming that the necks are rock solid I can't think of anything else it could be. The Fender angle was very tight at the bridge in comparison to the guitars I next to me at home.
If you are buying without trying it is a really important point. I would be gutted if I ordered a new bass and it didn't play like I expected.

[Dingus]

Wow, this is potentially a big topic! Some 34 inch scale basses ( Sadowsky and Fodera for example ) can have a low B that sounds tighter and clearer than those on a lot of 35 inch scale basses. There can be a lot of reasons for this. As others have mentioned, the headstock break-angle can be significant, as can the placement of the B- string machinehead. The design and of the bridge and the material composition of the neck and body can also make a big difference to overall B string performance , as can the pickups . In the end, it's the synergy of a whole host of design factors. In my limited experience, very few extended -range basses have a low B that is truly the same in overall timbre as the other strings, and in keeping with other posters , the few five string Fenders I have played ( American Deluxe Jazz basses of various vintages) had B strings that , to me at least, were so so sloppy that they were useless.

[chris_b]

I don't rate Fender 5 string basses and I don't have the time to spend looking for a good one, but today at the Bass Bash I played Silverfoxnick's Roscoe Beck 5 string bass. The B string was fine, the whole bass was very nice to play and it's the only Fender 5 string bass that I've liked.

I'd actually buy one!

[Conan]

Maybe the Fender ethos of "mass production, bolted together in a factory" shows that a five string is more than just a four string with an extra string added?

I suspect that many of the other manufacturers (the ones usually regarded as having decent B strings) have actually re-designed their instruments as fivers rather than just adapted their four string designs.

Or maybe I'm just being naive?

[Ed_S]

I've had my 2012 MIA Standard Precision V a couple of weeks now, and am happy to report that the B is absolutely fine. To say that it's a 4 with an extra string added rather than a specifically altered design would be pretty fair and accurate, but it works for me... I like it!

[Kongo]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1348995542' post='1820369']
Maybe the Fender ethos of "mass production, bolted together in a factory" shows that a five string is more than just a four string with an extra string added?

I suspect that many of the other manufacturers (the ones usually regarded as having decent B strings) have actually re-designed their instruments as fivers rather than just adapted their four string designs.

Or maybe I'm just being naive?
[/quote]

That's the way I see it. 5 / 6-string basses are more than just a 4-string with another string slapped on, especially the low-B.
Sometimes it's the pickups also. You'll want something with a little more power for that string and IMO trad pickups don't quite cater for that, especially ones with the small pole pieces, the Low-B travel is too large.

This is in no way a diss to Fender because I love their 4-string basses, but I don't think they make good V's. At least, not very often does one come out well.
The headstock doesn't help. It's straight and has noting to pull the strings down more often than not.
Which brings me to this; the only good Fender V I played had a string tree for every string, including the low-B, I think that may have helped.