brensabre79 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 [quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1349132920' post='1822368'] there is something very holier than thou about the people telling us to just 'develop our ear', just a touch of arrogance. Of course in an ideal world we'd all be able to read music, play scales sing in perfect pitch and be able to improvise in 11/4 time etc Guess what some of us have cloth ears, others have jobs and families and other commitments, for some of us it is just a hobby we enjoy. If tabs help us on the way then what is the harm, actually if they help people get started then that's more than OK it's brilliant and the sometimes inaccurate tabs are done by people who are kind and generous enough to give their mite to strangers. Come to think of it who decided being able to read music notation is fab and reading tab is for thickies? Rant over, sorry. [/quote] Actually I didn't say anything of the sort, I simply asked what was wrong with learning by listening? I think if anyone is coming across 'holier than thou' here it isn't the people saying why don't you try listening... Its the most reliable way to learn a Feeder song, and that is how its relevant to the post. I can read music but very slowly and it takes me ages - i certainly couldn't sight-read. I find TAB almost as slow to be honest. The simple reason is because I don't practice reading musical notation or TAB often enough to be up to speed. I do however listen to music all the time, to the point where I can play along with songs I've never heard and guess where its going much of the time. I'm not wanting to lecture anyone at all, I'm just saying if you rely on TAB or traditional musical notation to learn how to play songs you are relying on someone else's ear. if they make mistakes with the notation you will make the same mistakes (and so will everyone else who downloaded the TAB). If they remove the TAB due to copyright etc. as is the case here, you won't be able to play that song unless you can learn to use your ears... And don't give me that crap about having a job prevents you from using your ears, that's the lamest thing I've ever heard. I have a full time job, usually 10 hour days and I manage OK without resorting to someone else's cheat sheets. Just because you are a thickie doesn't restrict you to using TAB, thickies can use their ears too! And do you know what, its miles more fun! now that my friend is a rant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brensabre79 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 [quote name='mep' timestamp='1349180831' post='1822807'] The thead is about the fact that Tabs have been removed due to what appears to be a contentious reason. [/quote] Yes.. someone wants to learn a song but can't because the TAB has been removed... ...and the solution to that would be...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heminder Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 [quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1349182108' post='1822851'] Yes.. someone wants to learn a song but can't because the TAB has been removed... ...and the solution to that would be...? [/quote] To not censor user-submitted tabs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brensabre79 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 [quote name='heminder' timestamp='1349182527' post='1822865'] To not censor user-submitted tabs. [/quote] I don't believe you or the OP has any control over this. A solution that you [u]can[/u] control would be to learn the 3 chords by listening, hence it was brought up yet deemed to be unhelpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heminder Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 [quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1349183786' post='1822904'] I don't believe you or the OP has any control over this. A solution that you [u]can[/u] control would be to learn the 3 chords by listening, hence it was brought up yet deemed to be unhelpful. [/quote] Oh, but we [i]can [/i]control it with resistance to those who continuously push to restrict and censor the internet. There are countless civil liberties groups everywhere for this sole purpose. Learning by ear, while a useful skill, is correctly deemed unhelpful because it dodges the issue that this problem relates to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinynorman Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 It wouldn't be so bad if you could rely on the official books. I used to play with a pianist who always came with his glossy music books and often they were wrong, to the point of missing out whole sections. In the industry there may be a belief that most tab is actually copied from the official books. I think that may be true for a lot of Guitar Pro tab, probably not for the text stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 I think you'll find the most common reason for tabs being removed is that the owner of the publishing wants to sell you them instead. What's wrong with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heminder Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1349190025' post='1823025'] I think you'll find the most common reason for tabs being removed is that the owner of the publishing wants to sell you them instead. What's wrong with that? [/quote] A lot. For one, it's that tabs are being removed. Edited October 2, 2012 by heminder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 [quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1349107202' post='1821895'] Whats wrong with listening to the record and figuring it out for yourself? I don't think I've ever used tabs to learn a song and as a dep for function bands I've often had to learn 20 or more in a week! Improves your listening skills no end if you can listen to a tune once or twice and figure it out... One of the guitards I know used to send me tabs for songs all the time, usually I can tell they are wrong within one listen - who writes these things!? [/quote] this plus youve also got various bits of free software that you can even EQ stuff out and change tempo without changing pitch there was no such thing as [url="http://audacity.sourceforge.net/"][b]audacity[/b][/url] when i were a lad - we had to keep lifting the arm up on the record and dropping it back down have you ever looked at some of the tabs on songsterr(+) (rhetorical question) if you havent then id suggest dont bother theyre shoite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brensabre79 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 [quote name='heminder' timestamp='1349187326' post='1822977'] Oh, but we [i]can [/i]control it with resistance to those who continuously push to restrict and censor the internet. There are countless civil liberties groups everywhere for this sole purpose. Learning by ear, while a useful skill, is correctly deemed unhelpful because it dodges the issue that this problem relates to. [/quote] OK well good luck with that. I'll stick to my unhelpful method thanks. Out of interest how do you get on at jam sessions without TABs? Or does someone to tell you where to put your fingers...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 [quote name='heminder' timestamp='1349191359' post='1823049'] A lot. For one, it's that tabs are being removed. [/quote] I'm sorry I don't understand. Surely if you're enough of a fan of the band to want to learn how play their songs you should be happy to know that buying the authorised tab books that (at least some of) the money you are spending is going back to the musicians that wrote the songs that you are enjoying so much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Themrperson Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 I managed to find them on big bass tabs but its really stupid as is it not the whole purpose of music to create and share? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Themrperson Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 I do agree with a lot that's being said as I find tab (especially on songsterr) can be wrong but it helps me learn a song but I'm sure if I learnt it by ear it would sound much closer to the real thing but I don't have time to do it by ear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris2112 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Not to mention the fact that a lot of the time, the stuff you see in official tab books is wrong! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin8708 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) I noticed the tab for Ray la Montaigne is blocked on Ultimate Guitar too. I still learn from records ( yes , records , remember them ) but sometimes I am just too dumb to work out complicated bass runs , or there is just one note in the song that does not sound right no matter how many times I try and find it. Learning songs by ear is great , but sometimes I need a little help . Edited October 2, 2012 by martin8708 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Looper Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Working stuff out by ear is great, but for those of us not blessed with a "good ear" tab or sheet music can be helpful. If I can't pick up a bass line by ear then I'll see if I can find the tab. True it's often wrong but sometimes once I have a start on how it goes I can do the rest by ear. I really don't know why stuff is getting blocked, if I can't find it on the web I'm not going to decide to spend a small fortune on a book that might only have one or two tunes I want to learn and tab for other instruments as well. It's just bad mindedness on the part of the copyright holders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 [quote name='Themrperson' timestamp='1349197468' post='1823165'] but its really stupid as is it not the whole purpose of music to create and share? [/quote] Putting aside the fact that I think tab is sh*t....music isn't just about 'create and share',a lot of it is about 'create and sell'. In the same way that record companies get pissed off when you download albums for free,publishing companies get pissed off if you aren't buying their books,Ultimately,it's the same thing,so record companies remove the offending sites. Have you ever done a covers gig and been asked for a set list by someone? It's so PRS can pay the artist royalties for the use of their songs. Even though you are 'sharing' the music,the artist still benefits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heminder Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 [quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1349193870' post='1823105'] OK well good luck with that. I'll stick to my unhelpful method thanks. Out of interest how do you get on at jam sessions without TABs? Or does someone to tell you where to put your fingers...? [/quote] I don't know what made you think I'm a noob. I rarely use tabs since my ears are pretty good and I learn almost everything using them. Like I said before the point of learning by ear is dodging the issue about tabs being taken down. This is a civil liberties matter, not an education matter. [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1349194659' post='1823113'] I'm sorry I don't understand. Surely if you're enough of a fan of the band to want to learn how play their songs you should be happy to know that buying the authorised tab books that (at least some of) the money you are spending is going back to the musicians that wrote the songs that you are enjoying so much? [/quote] It's great for you if you buy the printed book, there's nothing bad about that. The problem is when publishers, copyright trolls, and lobbyists censor the internet because they have a gut feeling that their business is possibly being hurt - as if they have an 'absolute right to profit'. This is where the fascism / crony capitalism comes in. Tabs are largely community works made largely by fans for fans and distributed completely non-commercially. An entrepreneur is tasked with making money given the constraints imposed by society and technology - they don't get to dismantle civil liberties if (and perhaps especially if) they can't make money otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinynorman Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) So, Mozart goes to the Sistine Chapel to hear Allegri's Miserere, for which only three authorised scores existed, all in private hands, and none very accurate. Mozart goes home and writes it out from memory. Later he meets John Burney, who takes a copy to London and publishes it. Subsequently several other people have a go at creating even more complete transcriptions. This is a) jolly good, exactly how music should evolve collaboratively b_) gross copyright infringement, every copy should be hunted down and burned c) hardly comparable with some rubbish tab on the Internet d) probably apocrophal and anyway the Pope forgave Mozart afterwards, so that makes it ok. Discuss. I'll be in the bar. Edited October 2, 2012 by spinynorman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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