The wonders of the Fender Jazz

[Musicman20]

The wonders of the Fender Jazz...

In my time as a bassist, I have always longed for certain tones that only the Fender Jazz can produce.

I initially started on a cheap P bass copy, and I used to think about one day getting a real Jazz and a real Stingray.

Little did I know that using a P bass for so many years would have such an effect on how I view other instruments.

I bought my first Jazz in 2000. Awful bass. Waited 3 months for it to come in to Electro Music, only to find (as many experienced back then) a shoddy bass. Very heavy, very thin nasally tone (no growl) and the worst finish I have seen on a Fender. It was £100 extra for the Natural finish, and they had basically shipped it without letting the coating dry off, so it had stuck to the case in some parts and looked awful when you held it to the light. Within 2-3 weeks I had time to drive back up and ask for a new bass. Even Electro were pretty shocked and that led to my second Stingray, which was perfect.

So, still no Jazz.

2008, new series! Guess what, now is the time to buy an American Standard. I did, and it was a great bass. I was much happier. I didn’t like the fact they hadn’t filled some of the fret slots properly (I think they’ve caught onto that now as I’ve not seen it again) and the paint (as seems usual on the 2008-) has sunk into the grain and didn’t look that smooth. But, it was a great bass.

For some reason, I traded it when I was offered close to what I paid for it.

2011, I buy another, this time a 3TS/Rosewood/Tort. I have kept this and will continue to keep it. I’ve had barely anytime recently to get to know it, but I spent a few more hours on it on Friday evening.

Here are my thoughts:

Nice and light! Nice paintwork, well finished neck/frets. Classic colours.
Both pups with full volume/tone – Classic Jazz tone I always like to hear.
Back pup – If you EQ the amp a little, you can get a very very middy honk. Anyone thinking ‘it instantly makes you sounds something like Jaco’ would be wrong. The main reason being his technique! The back pup does ring clear as a bell though.....very clear.
Front pup – P bass territory but without the P bass kick. Nice pup...it can get very warm and thumpy.
Neck profile – needs some getting used to from my perspective.

The tone control works as expected. I have fairly unused strings on it so it helps to tame the very bright sound a Jazz can produce.

Why this topic? It isn’t a review as such. I really want to play Jazz basses a lot more, but I’m fighting it a little when I play. I find the pups on full volume sounds brilliant solo’d, but I lose it a bit when playing in a band or playing to music at home. I’ve heard countless bands use Jazz basses well, but how are they doing it? A P bass is plug and play, as I find a Stingray/Musicman bass is as well.

Some of my favourite bands, including Interpol, use a Jazz bass to great effect.

I don’t want to mod it or add an EQ, as I can use my Aguilar Tone Hammer for its ‘onboard EQ in a pedal’, and I usually find the pups I like best are the stock pups!

I realise I can knock one of the volumes down slightly on the pups, but I find it doesn’t make a huge difference, (there is a sweet spot and then it starts to sound like a pup solo’d or both pups!).

Are there many Jazz basses out there with a pan control?

I’m going to do the sensible thing and play it as much as possible. It might just be time...and experience on this type of bass.

[Fat Rich]

Running both pickups at maximum tends to scoop the sound, it can sometimes get lost in a band situation.

As you may have found with other basses, in some band settings a sound that's pretty awful soloed works well with everything else. I'd suggest for starters: run just the neck pickup for songs you'd normally use a P bass, and just the bridge pickup for songs you'd use a Stingray. Then start dialling in small amounts of the other pickup to add scoop and probably some growl too.

Also you might want to experiment with strings: I use DR Fat Beams for clang, EB Slinkys for more mellow sounds. Generally I'd say experiment a bit, what works for your P Bass and Stingrays won't necessarily get you that classic Jazz sound.

[Dingus]

For me, the Jazz Bass has always been Ground Zero when it comes to basses. My first really good bass was one of the original JV series Squier Jazz Basses, and my most important development as a player - i.e going from not really having much of a clue what to do to being able to play a bit - was made on that bass , and so for me it's always a design I feel instantly comfortable with in terms of both sound and feel. It's a well-trodden path I know, but Jazz Basses are so versatile ; rock, funk, jazz, metal...they can do it all.

Regarding getting a sound that cuts through a mix, the phenomena you describe where both pickups on full sounds fine when soloed but dissappears a bit in a band context is due , I believe, to a phenomena known as phase -cancellation. When both pickups are on full the overlapping midrange frequencies from each of the respective pickups cancels each other out, creating and apparent percievable scoop in the midrange and even a tangible drop in volume in some instances . This is not neccesarilly a bad thing in itself- it helps give the Jazz bass that characteristic hollow boom with both pickups fully open that can be used to good effect when playing with fingers and which is fantastic for slap. If you don't want to roll off one of the volumes to find a sweet spot then you could try selectively adding mids with an outboard eq or at the amp. It's not just Jazz basess that suffer from this trait. Traditional Fender-style basses with PJ pickups are particulaly prone to this problem too, and my experience of the recent two humbucker pickup EBMM basses such as the HH Stingray is that with both pickups on full that there is a very noticable drop in apparent volume due to the sudden abscence of mids. From dim and distant memory, I seem to remember that the Sabre had it's rear pickup slightly closer to the bridge in attempt to ameliorate this.
Off the top of my head , I can't think of any passive Jazz basses with a pan pot. The American Deluxe Fenders have a pan pot, as do many boutique active Jazz -style basses , but they can be quite a different beast to the classic passive Jazz Bass.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Dingus

[Musicman20]

Thanks all! Agreed, the two pup EBMMs work the same way in some of the selector positions due to the position of the pups. Scooping the tone. Sounds nice, but misses a little 'bark'.

I've had years on the P bass and I can pick a Ray up and it feels like it plays itself! I think I need to spend more quality time on this Jazz. I'd much rather stick to passive for 'that' tone.

[ahpook]

well, it's each to their own of course, but i've never got any mileage out of a jazz with both pickups on full - deffo sounds cool when you're playing on you own, but it's buried in a band.

i only ever use the front pickup on my jazz (the bridge pickup soloed sounds awful to my ears) and it cuts through fine.

mind you, my jazz was the 1st proper bass i ever had, so that's been my gold standard.

[Dingus]

If it is any encouragement, I know for a fact that a growly ,cutting- through kind of a tone is definitely achievable with a Jazz. I expect that he is unlikely to be a player that you listen to or are are trying to emulate, but the venerable Geddy Lee , for example, uses a Jazz Bass with both pickups wide open to get his signature cutting-but-full tone with Rush nowadays. He uses all sorts of eq ( Sansamp and Orange amps at the moment, I believe) and a selective amount of distortion but every note is clearly audible. Its also possible that what people are hearing out front is different to your perception of the sound onstage, and that things aren't as bad as you think. The good news is that what's for certain is that the solution lies within the equipment you already have. It's just a question of experimenting with the bass , e.q and amplification that you have already shelled out for rather than throwing any more money at the problem, because if you can't get a sound with your Jazz that pleases you from your existing gear ( which is already some of the best that money can buy) then I would doubt very much anything else would bring the satisfaction you crave.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Dingus

[jonnybass]

I started out with a p bass back in 1989 and although I have used many basses I kept coming back to my p bass, and I never spent allot of time with Jazz basses. Until I picked up a Fender custom shop custom classic this year. Although it has a three band pre amp I tend to run flat with both pickups wide open. To my ears I have to hit it harder to get the low mids to cut through with loud drums and guitar, more than I have to with a P bass or a musicman, but when I do, wow what a sound....and after practicing with it allot I am now getting used to the smaller (than a p bass) neck..I now think I should have gone down the jazz route years ago.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1349091020' post='1821533']
If it is any encouragement, I know for a fact that a growly ,cutting- through kind of a tone is definitely achievable with a Jazz. I expect that he is unlikely to be a player that you listen to or are are trying to emulate, but the venerable Geddy Lee , for example, uses a Jazz Bass with both pickups wide open to get his signature cutting-but-full tone with Rush nowadays. He uses all sorts of eq ( Sansamp and Orange amps at the moment, I believe) and a selective amount of distortion but every note is clearly audible. Its also possible that what people are hearing out front is different to your perception of the sound onstage, and that things aren't as bad as you think. The good news is that what's for certain is that the solution lies within the equipment you already have. It's just a question of experimenting with the bass , e.q and amplification that you have already shelled out for rather than throwing any more money at the problem, because if you can't get a sound with your Jazz that pleases you from your existing gear ( which is already some of the best that money can buy) then I would doubt very much anything else would bring the satisfaction you crave.
[/quote]

I do appreciate Geddy as a player and Rush do have some great songs.

Speaking of Geddy, I met a player a few years back who used a Geddy Lee Fender Jazz. I know it has slightly different pup positions, but the growl he achieved was just crazy. It absolutely stole the show in terms of tone...although they were a bass dominant band with the guitars being audible but not the usual overbearing volume. He used a fairly normal 4x10 and amp, but the pedals he used (including a Sansamp) must have been setup to really push an aggressive tone. It was the perfect Jazz tone.

[Dingus]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1349093653' post='1821606']
I do appreciate Geddy as a player and Rush do have some great songs.

Speaking of Geddy, I met a player a few years back who used a Geddy Lee Fender Jazz. I know it has slightly different pup positions, but the growl he achieved was just crazy. It absolutely stole the show in terms of tone...although they were a bass dominant band with the guitars being audible but not the usual overbearing volume. He used a fairly normal 4x10 and amp, but the pedals he used (including a Sansamp) must have been setup to really push an aggressive tone. It was the perfect Jazz tone.
[/quote]

You will be able to get a comparable sound with what you have, just try experimenting at band rehearsals a bit, especially if someone is recording them. I have always found, right from the outset of when I started playing with other musicians , that you have to exaggerate all your amp settings in terms of e.q compared to when you are playing at home alone in order to be heard . The drums steal your lows, the cymbals steal your highs and the guitars suck out your mids.

[Low End Bee]

I got pulled up on stage to play a couple of songs with a blues band in the US* a couple of years ago and was handed an S1 switched jazz. It worked really well in the mix with the switch on. That's my only experience of a jazz as a dedicated P man.
The neck felt very insubstatial even though there's not much difference on paper. I quite enjoyed it though.

[sub]*Scary. Full bar of drunk Americans! I'm no blues afficianado by a long c halk. "We're playing Susie Q (never heard it before) followed by Chicago blues in G (no idea how Chicago blues was different to any other)" I managed OK though.[/sub]

[Grand Wazoo]

Agreed and you can't just have the one, you've got to get both! As I did 2011 American Standard P and J in the exact same colour and fretboards

[IMG]http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r200/xt660/Fender%20American%20Standard%20Jazz%20Bass/7d7090e6.jpg[/IMG]

[brensabre79]

I have an S1 switch on my main Jazz, it is the most useful control on there when you need a little bit of a boost, both volume and the cutting mids part of the EQ. You will lose a bit of sparkly top end but it sounds really fat and powerful. A bit like a Precision
Its the first place I go to get a P-Bass sound out of a Jazz, I couldn't live without it.
I also put an S1 switch on my Sabre, two MM humbuckers wired in series, now that is a HUGE sound, if its not stuck down you're gonna lose it

[Musicman20]

I practiced to a few Jamiroquai songs tonight. The slap tone is absolutely superb. The best Jazz slap tone I've heard...I couldn't believe it...totally spot on.

Both pups full with almost full tone. Very snappy and aggressive.

Goes to show a good passive Jazz can nail it!

[JTUK]

I am running my J5 passive atm... as the battery ran down and altho it lasts for ages, I haven't needed to replace the batt as we are having a few weeks off.

The trick to a great jazz..as far as I am concerned, is to EQ the amp so everything on the gig can be covered with either full on, both pickups, or bridge solo'ed..and all you'd then need to do is wind down the passive presense to taste. This only requires the enhance or timbre to get dialled in as everything else is level (12:00) on the amp
Fortunately both my jazzes sound very good passive and active and are compatible, but very different sounding basses so you can run the same amp sound for both and just dial in whatever variation you want from onboard.
One is classic MM, the other is a vintage RW sound...and both have East U-retros to help out if ness.

Love them both...as they are very playable as well as very good sounding. I can do every gig with a jazz, IMO.

[Stacker]

Took me 20 years to get around to them and, bar one Steinberger, all my basses are Jazzes now. But Jazz pups - even stock ones - can sound different to each other, for several reasons I won't go into here, but what I look for in that rear pup (with the amp flat) is its ability to growl and to bring out those harmonics just behind the 4th fret and the ones just in front of the 3rd. If the rear one can't do that, out it comes.

[PauBass]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1349089426' post='1821499']
...If you don't want to roll off one of the volumes to find a sweet spot then you could try selectively adding mids with an outboard eq or at the amp. [/quote]

Well said, that's exactly what I do, I boost mids on my amp and the tone is just there!

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1349093653' post='1821606']
....I met a player a few years back who used a Geddy Lee Fender Jazz. I know it has slightly different pup positions, but the growl he achieved was just crazy. It absolutely stole the show in terms of tone...although they were a bass dominant band with the guitars being audible but not the usual overbearing volume. He used a fairly normal 4x10 and amp, but the pedals he used (including a Sansamp) must have been setup to really push an aggressive tone. It was the perfect Jazz tone. [/quote]

For the past few years I have been using a Geddy Lee bass , I replaced the pickups with Dimarzio Model Js, together with a Sansamp Bass Driver and some mids boosted on my Aguilar DB750 and the tone is inmense, everywhere we play I always have other bass players commenting on my bass tone and how I achieve it..Plus through th sansamp all effects, specially distortions, sound so much better!

[JapanAxe]

Couple of thoughts:

1. Your amp setup will clearly make a big difference to how your Jazz comes across on the different settings - especially in the mids (obvious really but not mentioned yet).
2. It is worth tweaking the pup heights to optimise the sound in the both-full-on position. A bit like the OP, I never found too much joy trying to find the much-talked-about sweet spot anywhere else.

Edited October 2, 2012 by JapanAxe

[Kiwi]

I find jazz basses very comfortable and the sound of a 70's ash bodied jazz with a maple board is very evocative. But those scooped mids make playing one in a live situation challenging. There are other basses that can do the job better. In my experience, there's a lot to be said for either single pick up basses or onboard electronics with buffered input channels.

[mr zed]

I have the USA Deluxe which has the pan between the 2 pups and a 3 band active pre-amp. I run both pups full on (pan in the middle) and the the eq on the bass flat. On the amp (GB Shuttle 9.0 with 2 x Berg HD210's) I have both the gain and gain volume set at 1 o'clock, the bass and treble flat and boost the low mids (mid freq sweep to 9 o'clock and the mid to 2 o'clock). Volume to suit. This gives me a fantastic tone and it cuts through a treat. Never really need to change from these settings through a gig as that sound suits everything we do. Very happy!

[wateroftyne]

I generally avoid J's because of the scoop. My Roscoe Beck has sorted it, with the neck set to parallel and the bridge set to series. It's marvellous.

[Conan]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1349172228' post='1822617']
I generally avoid J's because of the scoop.[/quote]

Well, if you want rid of your '71 J...

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1349179295' post='1822773']
Well, if you want rid of your '71 J...
[/quote]

It's going soon...

[Musicman20]

I definitely see why people love the Jazz. Its a lovely design...great aesthetics.

I am still wowwed by the slap tone (although I barely ever slap). I wouldn't see any reason to opt for a Sadowsky over this Jazz as the passive tone is fantastic, and the Tonehammer adds a wonderful touch. Its well made and lightweight.

I think I much prefer the ''rough' Fender Jazz tone over a more polished boutique tone.

So far, still very happy. Part of me wants to get a matching Jazz with a glossed maple board...but that is the collectors side of me coming out.

[Dingus]

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1349172228' post='1822617']
I generally avoid J's because of the scoop. My Roscoe Beck has sorted it, with the neck set to parallel and the bridge set to series. It's marvellous.
[/quote]

That Fender Roscoe Beck was a brilliant design, by all accounts . I never managed to get my hands on one, but I remember reading that Roscoe helped Fender design a setting on the bass that emulates the sweet spot you get on a Jazz Bass by turning the neck pickup down a fraction when both pickups are on full.

[Highfox]

I have been giving my 2008 Jazz a run out again of late and been liking it's honk. TI flats with the bridge on full, neck on half and tone half-way, not lacking in any lows through a 212.

That's why I like to have a few bass's to swap and change.