JTUK Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 Having a conversation with a friend of mine who works one of the better bands around here and they are having to change a few members including lead vox. The theme went to vox in general and he said he was considering getting one of these vocal harmonisers for BV's and played a demo of what it can do. Well, it can do an awful lot but I was a tad shocked when he said he was considering getting one for his band.. I laughed, but wonder if anyone would take a band that did that seriously anymore....well, you get my jist..?? I'd think I'd FAR prefer bands that do warts and all... This is a step too far...??? Quote
Doddy Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 I think they're ok if they are used as an occasional effect,like any effect in general,but I wouldn't be overly impressed if it was constantly used for pitch correction or whatever. Quote
BassBus Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 I don't know. If you have a situation where all the guys in a band get on really well but you want some really good backing vocals why risk bringing in new members who will change the equilibrium. There's also the solo musicians who want to pad out their sound a bit, and these vocaliser machines can help with that. The technology is there to help. Why not use it? Quote
Pete Academy Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 This is a subject that will no doubt cause some controversy, John. Personally, I prefer vocals to be performed live and in tune. However, if I was in a duo that relied on making a living, I would probably consider using this technology. I hate the fact that most people going to watch a mainstream pop act are paying to see a mimed or autotuned show. Quote
lowdown Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) [quote name='BassBus' timestamp='1349631929' post='1828495'] The technology is there to help. Why not use it? [/quote] I agree - The whole music business is about technology. Bands and Duo's having been using them for years - as in anything, some of the units are not so good, and a couple of them sound great. I think the OP is talking about Harmonising or doubling up, not pitch correcting Garry Edited October 7, 2012 by lowdown Quote
JTUK Posted October 7, 2012 Author Posted October 7, 2012 hmmmmm.... something like thus is taking the p************** IMO. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r7wuiOFNOg&feature=fvwrel"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r7wuiOFNOg&feature=fvwrel[/url] I can see a Solo of Duo in a bar adding a fuller voice... but that is obvious what they are doing but for a band ..?? I think I'd walk out ... Quote
paul_5 Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 Pop music has always been about technology - double-tracking vocals, selective EQ'ing and using artificial reverberation to 'blur' imperfections in vocal performances (and sometimes fretless bass too!) to ensure a more marketable product are common place. Autotune is simply the next step in the race to be fully dependent on technology. What's different about Autotune (and others) is that the public are aware of it. Back in the day the 'tricks of the trade' were closely guarded secrets. Quote
arthurhenry Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 I use technology: One end of the lead plugs into a microphone and the other into the P.A. Quote
lowdown Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1349633702' post='1828528'] hmmmmm.... something like thus is taking the p************** IMO. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r7wuiOFNOg&feature=fvwrel[/media] [/quote] Yep - Those carpet slippers get right up my f**k**g nose. Garry Quote
xgsjx Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 Wait a minute... Are you implying that there might be some famous acts that use pitch correction live?!?! Quote
JTUK Posted October 7, 2012 Author Posted October 7, 2012 I'd laugh at a cover band doing that......tbh Quote
argm Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 Jesus christ that cover of 'Somebody to Love' sounded f***ing horrible with that pedal. It sounds horrid! Quote
BottomE Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 I have only heard two of these machines. They sounded terrible in isolation and very robotic when incorporated into the mix. I'd rather not have backing vocals than use one of these based on my limited experience. Quote
mcgraham Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 On a more constructive note, I don't like these sorts of things when they are used as blatent cheats, e.g. a full band where none of them can be bothered to put in the effort to learn, however difficult they each find it. I don't have a problem with others using them where there is no other way they could find some harmonies, e.g. a solo acoustic act where the soundman is poor, some technology to polish up the vocal sound (not saying autotune, but eq, comp, etc) plus a low-level harmony can really make a solo performance come alive. Quote
lowdown Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) Queen could have done with one in the middle section of BR [b]live[/b] at Wembley, then they could have done away with the Backing track ... [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oozJH6jSr2U[/media] Garry Edited October 7, 2012 by lowdown Quote
martin8708 Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 I have been a Bassist / backing singer for years . My vocals have been a bit hit and miss and for many years my microphone was turned right down ( by the singer / guitarist ) to minimal volume so I was barely audible to myself and the audience . About a year ago , I was lent a Digitech vocal pedal which would automatically correct my vocal pitch to the bass guitar which I plugged into it . To be honest , apart from the reverb and extra harmony the pedal provided , I did not sound any better or worse than when I did not use the pedal . There definately was no quantum leap in my vocal ability with this pedal .Eventually ,I discarded the pedal and just worked extra hard on harmonising with the lead singer in a pitch that suited my voice and return the pedal to it's owner . When I sang out of key , the vocal sounded the same with or without the pedal , it just had a bit more reverb . Pedals are not a substitute for talent , yes they can do clever things , but if you are a sh*t singer or guitarist , they will not make you any better . Quote
chrismuzz Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 For studio work, I don't have a problem with anybody using auto-tune to correct moments that are off key by a fraction. IMO it's no different than using compression to even out levels... What I DO have a problem with is all of these R&B 'artists' who will talk into a microphone, and let technology do all the work for them. It's cheap, it's lazy, and it sounds absolutely horrible! As for harmonizers, if they're used as an occasional effect, or to add lots of voices when you've only got 1 or 2 singers then that's totally cool... But it won't have the same impact as the real thing, especially live! Quote
Chrismanbass Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 IMO they're a good tool for augmenting an already good band for example i run a function band with 3 lead singers and 2 other musicians doing backing vox, and i could see a use for these to make the vocals sound a lot bigger especially on songs where the backing vocals are very noticable. i wouldnt for example use one in a band with only the lead singer singing because it is blatantly obvious to the audience whats going on. i beleive that for these things to truly work they shouldn't be noticed. Of course theres always going to be the muso in the audience that has a bit of insider knowledge and knows whats going on but for your average punter i beleive if its used correctly they shouldnt be able to tell Quote
Dad3353 Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 (edited) [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1349633702' post='1828528']('Somebody to Love' cover...) [/quote] Damned..! Utter deception... I was keenly expecting this to be the excellent Jefferson Airplane song..! B*gger..! For your sins, here's the 'live' version, with Jack thundering away... [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQojFWVRiLA[/media] ...ah, happy days (Roundhouse, Chalk Farm, with The Doors and Terry Reid, all-night concert...) Edited October 7, 2012 by Dad3353 Quote
flyfisher Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 All we need is a half-decent voice synth and recordings could be made made entirely with technology. They would probably be note-perfect and dead-on the timing . . . they'd also probably be devoid of any emotion and humanity. We don't often hear the word 'muzak' these days, but that's the sort of thing I'd imagine. Dad3353's above post puts it all into perspective for me (as well as making me regret I wasn't at that gig!). Quote
WalMan Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1349633702' post='1828528'] hmmmmm.... something like thus is taking the p************** IMO. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r7wuiOFNOg&feature=fvwrel[/media] I can see a Solo of Duo in a bar adding a fuller voice... but that is obvious what they are doing but for a band ..?? I think I'd walk out ... [/quote]The only positive for this is that it follows the input so the harmonies are "right". I did see a band kicking in a harmoniser, but as it was a fixed not following it sounded pretty cr@p , well to me anyway. Quote
thisnameistaken Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 Hate autotune, also hate digital harmonies. A human voice singing in tune sounds good, a voice that has been corrected doesn't - it gets very tiring to listen to. Same goes for harmonies. Avoid. And if you can't do the vocals you want with the band you've got then you're out of luck. Quote
Truckstop Posted October 7, 2012 Posted October 7, 2012 I see no problem. I sing BV's in my pub covers band (the only backing vocal) and sometimes I just sound too weedy on my own to make it worth doing. The choir backing in 'Forget You' and the "Sha la la la la la"'s in 'Brown Eyed Girl' sound so much thicker wIth a touch of harmoniser and reverb. I don't agree with it's use in the studio though. What's wrong with overdubbing with the harmonies? Truckstop Quote
Sean Posted October 8, 2012 Posted October 8, 2012 [quote name='Truckstop' timestamp='1349646642' post='1828768'] I don't agree with it's use in the studio though. What's wrong with overdubbing with the harmonies? [/quote] Unfortunately time = money. The soulless vampires in the music industries won't pay for multiple takes if they can correct and layer one (the first and only) take. Quote
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